#21  
Old 08-10-2021, 10:47 PM
Emoney's Avatar
Emoney Emoney is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Years Playing: 14.1
Courses Played: 90
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 2,854
Niced 1,266 Times in 644 Posts
Default

Love the baskets...hope they stay.

Fun seeing Simon salty. Course looks fun for sure.
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-11-2021, 02:47 AM
wolfhaley's Avatar
wolfhaley wolfhaley is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: WI
Years Playing: 18.1
Courses Played: 667
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 3,588
Niced 3,702 Times in 1,574 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dehaas View Post
I can’t speak for newer iterations of the Gateway Titan baskets, but the older ones were super legit.
The only time I've ever played on these things was down around STL. Foundation had them and they were...um...durable looking I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-11-2021, 09:19 AM
Rastnav Rastnav is online now
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Durham, NC
Courses Played: 26
Posts: 973
Niced 799 Times in 401 Posts
Default

It seems like Simon didnt play Ledgestone, at least I'm not seeing him in the results on uDisc. Towards the end of the skins round he said "ow!" immediately after a couple of drives and he was rubbing his elbow after he threw on 18.

Sorta makes you wonder if he reaggravated something either at this course or at The Preserve.

Although, he was always planning on skipping some events this year, so maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-11-2021, 09:25 AM
dehaas dehaas is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Shiloh, IL
Years Playing: 20.6
Courses Played: 92
Throwing Style: RHFH
Posts: 2,871
Niced 1,119 Times in 530 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastnav View Post
It seems like Simon didnt play Ledgestone, at least I'm not seeing him in the results on uDisc. Towards the end of the skins round he said "ow!" immediately after a couple of drives and he was rubbing his elbow after he threw on 18.

Sorta makes you wonder if he reaggravated something either at this course or at The Preserve.

Although, he was always planning on skipping some events this year, so maybe I'm reading too much into it.
He’s playing in Europe this weekend.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-11-2021, 09:55 AM
Tyler J Tyler J is online now
Par Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Years Playing: 15
Courses Played: 118
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 142
Niced 413 Times in 103 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nothinbuttree View Post
So...where's all the reviews, or is this not disc golf course REVIEW??

Zero as of today.
I'm looking forward to seeing reviews come in to see how some of the other reviewers in this area rate it. Covid got me last week even with a vaccine, otherwise I'd have tried to get up there last weekend. This course is on my list to play this year. It hasn't been open too long to the public, so hopefully it starts getting more play!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-11-2021, 10:09 AM
ThrowBot's Avatar
ThrowBot ThrowBot is online now
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Billings, MT
Years Playing: 15.9
Courses Played: 205
Throwing Style: RHFH
Posts: 1,919
Niced 1,819 Times in 686 Posts
Default

Watched a bit of this last night, the course looks awesome.

I think on the Train Wreck hole, they mentioned that there's a designed area for the spectators. It looked like it might have been a long raised bench on the players' right as they navigate the tunnel.

That's a great design concept, and one that we really need for courses that will be used for top-level events in the future. In open areas it's not as big of a deal, but tight wooded holes can be a mess if there are too many spectators.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-11-2021, 10:47 AM
dehaas dehaas is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Shiloh, IL
Years Playing: 20.6
Courses Played: 92
Throwing Style: RHFH
Posts: 2,871
Niced 1,119 Times in 530 Posts
Default

Kinda cool having JC and Sexton playing it completely blind, and Eagle just have seeing some of the course on an ATV in the dark. Several points in the videos you hear them commenting about how crazy the course is, you can tell they’re honest reactions. Gotta figure these guys have seen anything and everything course wise, so to generate that kind of response says something especially considering the mountain courses Eagle has played.

Also funny seeing Dave Mac’s reactions in the background after some of the tee shots. No doubt he’s seen long throwers…Nikko obviously…but Simon and Eagle power is just on another level. I’d be curious if anybody had really tried cutting the corner over the water on 18 prior to the skins match. Same goes for the hole on the front 9, hole 4 maybe? The par 5 that’s like 800 feet with the elevated basket? The tee shots were long enough where they had fairly routine hyzer upshots over water for eagle.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-11-2021, 11:08 AM
BogeyNoMore's Avatar
BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
* Ace No More *
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Walled Lake, MI
Years Playing: 18
Courses Played: 397
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 13,289
Niced 9,262 Times in 3,642 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfhaley View Post
The only time I've ever played on these things was down around STL. Foundation had them and they were...um...durable looking I guess.
Been 7 years since I played on those beefy ass Titans you talk about.

While I don't recall the specifics of my rounds in the St Louis area, I remember liking them and don't recall feeling I got robbed.

IIRC, Perkerson (near Atlanta) had those baskets when I played it. Can't recall off the top of my head when that was.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-12-2021, 02:13 AM
SocraDeez's Avatar
SocraDeez SocraDeez is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Indiana
Years Playing: 4
Courses Played: 141
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 133
Niced 358 Times in 101 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by notapro View Post
There's a review right there in the thumbnail!

"Best and most prestigious course in the sport."
Right?! There's your review, baby. It's somewhat funny that the Latinate-root-word that sired our-English-word "prestigious" was used originally to mean "full of tricks". (E.g., "The Prestige", a well-worth-your-time Chris Nolan/ Chris Bale/ Mike Caine/ Scar Jo/ Hugh Michael Jackman vehicle about conjuring tricks & the consequences of conjuring said tricks). It's as if the Wizard, the being behind the curtain, the Great and the Powerful Oz, has revealed himself to us too soon.

The published course footage is enjoyable and appreciated. But it's good to also acknowledge the play-within-the-play, which is that there's a product being sold (and bought! / it's good manners to be kind to your host / 100K+ Youtube views). Recall Queen Gertrude in Hamlet upon seeing the caricature of herself strut about on stage: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

That being said, Eagle's Crossing appears to be a great disc golf course, and it's personally on my would-surely-like-to-play-before-becoming-inert-dust list. It's hard to shake the stars-that-burn-twice-as-bright-burn-half-as-long feeling about the property, but I hope that I'm mistaken and that I'll be able to pony up my $20 someday & examine for myself whether or not it was worth the buy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan P. View Post
Aesthetically pleasing + difficult does not equal best. I know a lot of the pros seem to think that, but I definitely disagree. There's more to good design than making it aesthetically pleasing and a good challenge for the intended skill level. Those are great to have, but there is so much more to a course than that.
"Aesthetically pleasing + difficult" seems to be the core criteria for a high course rating here on dgcoursereview.com. Let's use the nice things Simon Lizotte said about Eagle's Crossing in the pre-round interview as the kernel of a rough rubric - "It's almost hard to compare to other disc golf courses because it's just so much better... From the aesthetic [i.e. (1) some sense of natural beauty formed into fairways] to the teepads [i.e. (2) amenities] to the design [i.e. (3) challenge + variety relative to some intended skill level reference point]... Everything is done right, and it's almost emotional to see." So, what would you add to the "equal[s] best" equation?

Here's what I would admit:

(1) Geographical proximity and/or convenience of play to me

This is two parts joke and one part admission of a really-hard-to-get-rid-of bias in regards to fair evaluation of disc golf courses.

(2) Choice + Free Will

A really hard-to-articulate-but-easy-to-experience pleasure in disc golf course design is: the opportunity to choose between multiple shot paths/ types/ angles/ discs/ throw styles. To some extent, you perform this dance on every hole & course you play. But those special-and-hard-to-forget courses seem to sweat it out of every pore. Now, I'm not saying this choice thing is the be-all-end-all of course design, but it's like the salt that greatly enhances the flavor. Or, it's like the spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down. In related words: multiple fairways make me swoon.

On the more challenging course designs, this question of choice becomes decidedly more Jobean in scope - Can the innocent suffer? Am I innocent? Do I suffer? Why? What is the course's role in this feeling? What is my role? I'd say similar feelings are revealed in some of the recent reactions to footage from Northwoods' Black. For example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nothinbuttree View Post
What do you all think about the 90 degree turns at Northwood? Where the landing zone is really very small. Seems there were several there, and some players, even landing in the fairway, but just short of the turn, had nothing but 50' pitches to turn the corner.

Fair for top players, or over the top?
Quote:
Originally Posted by araytx View Post
I get that there were some things that people didn't like about some holes at Northwood Black. But basing everything solely on the scoring average per hole is extremely short-sighted. They need to dig deeper. Did the players getting poor scores try their best to play the hole smartly or as it was designed, or did they try to many hero shots knowing that this course is extremely punishing off the fairways? Look at that. Nate in the course preview description said throw a lot of putters and mids off the tees, yet I still saw players (many of whom got in trouble) throwing 8-9-10-speed drivers when not necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
No fun to watch, no fun to play, stifles scrambling creativity,hard for the sake of being hard. One would have been sufficient. These types of holes often wind up developing "new fairways" from players cutting the corners as the course beats in but it will take a looong time for that undergrowth to be beat in in this particular case.
I'm not saying at all that Eagle's Crossing suffers from some sort of you-must-throw-this-specific-shot-to-score design philosophy. But I am saying that this course characteristic is mighty hard to evaluate on video. You've got to feel it from the teepad or from the fairway or when approaching the green. Real or illusory, the choices that a course presents constitute a dialogue: with the course, with the designers, with the caretakers, with the constituents. What kind of course were you intended to be? What kind of course are you? Well, what kind of player are you intended to be? What kind of player are you?

I offer this anecdote in conclusion:

On a course that I've played about a dozen times, the 18th hole is no doubt controversial in the conversations of those that play it regularly. The hole has a (short-ish) water carry + some foliage eager to bat a disc down into a dirty brown watering hole of a pond. There's also a dry + narrow foliage-lined fairway that plays to the right of said pond. Furthermore, this final hole plays away from the parking lot / Hole # 1's teeing area relative to coming off hole # 17 on the way to the lot. This makes it mighty tempting to skip. Here's the course page:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=11020

Hear me now: I've thrown frisbees at this particular course about a dozen times, but only finished out the 18th hole there about half a dozen times. The hole hasn't changed, which means it's presented me with a similar choice time and time again. Sometimes I play it; Sometimes I don't; I've never played the hole down the dry fairway around the pond*.

*
I dunked a first run, D-Line, no-ink, well-chewed-up-by-trees P2 in that dirty pond a few months ago. Might still be there! (But emphasis on the well-chewed-up-by-trees).

Why do I play this hole over the water sometimes and skip it others and never along the dry fairway? It's darn hard to explain exactly, but surely all this is not without meaning, right?

Last edited by SocraDeez; 08-12-2021 at 02:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
 

  #30  
Old 08-12-2021, 07:59 AM
Ryan P.'s Avatar
Ryan P. Ryan P. is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central NC
Years Playing: 16.1
Courses Played: 64
Posts: 2,375
Niced 551 Times in 308 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SocraDeez View Post
"Aesthetically pleasing + difficult" seems to be the core criteria for a high course rating here on dgcoursereview.com. Let's use the nice things Simon Lizotte said about Eagle's Crossing in the pre-round interview as the kernel of a rough rubric - "It's almost hard to compare to other disc golf courses because it's just so much better... From the aesthetic [i.e. (1) some sense of natural beauty formed into fairways] to the teepads [i.e. (2) amenities] to the design [i.e. (3) challenge + variety relative to some intended skill level reference point]... Everything is done right, and it's almost emotional to see." So, what would you add to the "equal[s] best" equation?
I omitted a bit of what you said for brevity. I very much agree that a course should be evaluated based on the designers goals. But let's look at a hypothetical Mr. Philosoraptor.

Suppose the swiss alps decided to have a course, and hired someone who didn't like the idea of disturbing nature hardly at all. So that person drops some flags in the ground for tees, puts some form of basket up in a non-permanent way, and says, "Voila, a course!" It would surely meet the requirements of beauty that so many Eastern philosophers have highlighted during their lives. Additionally, that course might encourage your inner Heidegger to come out because of its difficulty. You might believe that Kierkegaard was right with his existential crisis of disc golf in that you cannot borrow the concept of a tee and basket and divorce it from good course design to create a good course. Or perhaps you were trapped on that course your entire life, but then, upon playing another course, you were like Plato's analogy of the cave, and came to realize that there were better things in life, but the others playing that course didn't believe you when you went back to tell them.

Philosophy banter aside, those two (difficulty + aesthetics) are good to have, and usually large amounts of those two make for a really great course. But the best course? Shouldn't the best course have a variety of strategic, penal, and heroic holes? Shouldn't a course offer a balance of good wooded holes and good holes with fewer trees? There are tons of different criteria that go into rating a course, and unless a course is firing on every cylinder, I don't think you can call it the best course.

*Disclaimer: I'm not saying that this course doesn't offer everything; I've only seen 4-5 holes. I'm simply evaluating Simon Lizotte's evaluation of the course (albeit he had just finished the course and it was an off-the-cuff evaluation).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cass Clay DG - 2016 Skins Match tampora Tournaments & Leagues 1 12-28-2016 04:42 AM
Creating a gallery event at a tournament. Skins match, or final 9? aardvarkious Tournaments & Leagues 10 03-06-2013 05:26 PM
2012 TCOC Final 9 Pro/Am Skins Full Video W/ Nikko and Will mcbentz General Disc Golf Chat 6 11-02-2012 08:55 AM
Scoring Match Play and Skins Keokuk Discer General Disc Golf Chat 14 08-24-2012 08:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.