#21  
Old 12-28-2021, 11:15 PM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
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I've often thought certain courses were 4.25's, 3.75'etc, and felt I had to round my rating one way or the other, but these things tend to balance themselves out, much like flukey plays and penalty calls in ball games. As long as we're relatively consistent about the process, it's robust.

We're allowed to have individual likes and dislikes, pet peeves, etc, but in the end, it seems most TR's are looking most of the same things on our checklists things, regardless how we weight them.
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  #22  
Old 12-28-2021, 11:32 PM
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pmay5 pmay5 is offline
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Originally Posted by nothinbuttree View Post
And even with that, I've still found myself wishing there was even more granularity. Seems like more than once I've wanted to give a 3.75 or 4.25. Moreso at the high end of the ratings though. Haven't felt the need to dole out a 0.25 yet.
I feel the same way, but didn't want to be the one to bring it up.

I've found myself recently wanting to rate a few courses, but needing that granularity. The current rating is between two selections, but the issues I have with it may not be material enough to lower the current rating, but I sure don't think my rating should raise the current rating. I'd like to rate it right were it currently is, or within <.5 .

I'm not a coder, so I respect TimGs word that it can't be done without a major rework. But, since the ratings already go to one decimal (2.5,3.0, etc), that doesn't seem like a big stretch to add .1 to .9 options under each whole disc rating, instead of adding .25 and .75 options. But like I said, I'm not a coder.

Last edited by pmay5; 12-28-2021 at 11:34 PM.
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  #23  
Old 12-29-2021, 08:37 AM
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DiscGolfCraig DiscGolfCraig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothinbuttree View Post
And even with that, I've still found myself wishing there was even more granularity. Seems like more than once I've wanted to give a 3.75 or 4.25. Moreso at the high end of the ratings though. Haven't felt the need to dole out a 0.25 yet.
Been there. Done that. I realized I was overthinking the process. For the 4.25-level course, it's negligible whether to rate it 4.0 or 4.5. Either way, you're still saying the course is in the upper echelon.
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Old 12-29-2021, 09:05 AM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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I think DGCR is the exception, not the rule. Most ratings systems today are about "your experience" and are practical, as opposed to the "impractical" ratings system here (impractical in that the vast majority of people care about their experience far more than one site's definition of good course design). The system here is about attempting to be objective in rating the design of the course, and to that end the system is more defined. DGCR I would equate to a journal. People are expected to document their reasons, to leave their subjectivity at the door for the rating but then explain it later (for example, nobody should really be lowering a score because a course is too long...they should rate the design and then note in their explanation that the course is very long...while I fully expect people rating their experience to lower the score based on an impression that the course is too long).

DGCR seems more heavy on "justify your rating" while the majority of ratings system use a "your experience is your experience" philosophy where there's no need to justify the rating because the rating reflects how you feel. I think both have their place. Do I really want to play a course where DGCR folks wax philosophic about the amazing course design being used if everyone who played the course actually hated playing there (including DGCR folks who mention in their notes that they hated it?)? Probably not. Do I want to play a course that DGCR says is severely lacking in design if everyone who plays it says it's a blast? Probably.

The key is really knowing the difference in the ratings. If you are someone who wants to go to the movies and watch a technically well-executed movie...DGCR ratings will help tell you that. If you are someone who wants to go to a movie that everyone likes...UDisc and other ratings systems will tell you that.

As an example from a previous post...having a sidewalk nearby is completely irrelevant to whether I want to go play a course. DGCR is going to say "poor design". UDisc is going to give it a terrible rating if you have to wait forever because people are constantly walking on the sidewalk and stopping you from throwing, or a good rating if you never have to wait.

Practically speaking, I check DGCR if I'm planning a "trip" somewhere...even locally. I want to read the journal and justification and take the time to process that information and decide which course I should hit. If I'm in the area and looking for a quick throw, I just wanna know if people like the course or not.

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Old 12-29-2021, 09:45 AM
Gblambert Gblambert is offline
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Unlike DGCR, Udisc focuses on finding courses, providing layouts, hole lengths and recording scores. Reviews are an afterthought. There are no established guidelines for writing reviews and no mechanism in place to facilitate comprehensive, well thought out reviews. The reviews themselves are not rated, there are no trusted reviewers, no option to sort reviews by date or reviewer experience level. There are no forums where the criteria for a good review are discussed and generally agreed upon.

Perhaps it's regional, but most of the folks I play with never heard of DGCR, but everyone uses Udisc. My home course has been in existence for 7 years. During that that it has been reviewed 11 times on DGCR and over 1,500 times on Udisc. Since Udisc asks for nothing more than a simple number rating, lots of folks are happy to comply. Everyone from seasoned pros to a first time players who know nothing whatsoever about good disc golf course design. Especially those that already have the app in hand during their round to record their scores.

So, in the absence of formal review criteria, how do most players assign that number rating to a course on Udisc? Most, I believe, are rating the course based on the experience they had while playing and not the subtleties of course design. Did they have a great time while playing that day? If yes, then they will more than likely give it a perfect 5.0 in Udisc.

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  #26  
Old 12-29-2021, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoore1998 View Post
I think DGCR is the exception, not the rule. Most ratings systems today are about "your experience" and are practical, as opposed to the "impractical" ratings system here (impractical in that the vast majority of people care about their experience far more than one site's definition of good course design). The system here is about attempting to be objective in rating the design of the course, and to that end the system is more defined. DGCR I would equate to a journal. People are expected to document their reasons, to leave their subjectivity at the door for the rating but then explain it later (for example, nobody should really be lowering a score because a course is too long...they should rate the design and then note in their explanation that the course is very long...while I fully expect people rating their experience to lower the score based on an impression that the course is too long).

DGCR seems more heavy on "justify your rating" while the majority of ratings system use a "your experience is your experience" philosophy where there's no need to justify the rating because the rating reflects how you feel. I think both have their place. Do I really want to play a course where DGCR folks wax philosophic about the amazing course design being used if everyone who played the course actually hated playing there (including DGCR folks who mention in their notes that they hated it?)? Probably not. Do I want to play a course that DGCR says is severely lacking in design if everyone who plays it says it's a blast? Probably.

The key is really knowing the difference in the ratings. If you are someone who wants to go to the movies and watch a technically well-executed movie...DGCR ratings will help tell you that. If you are someone who wants to go to a movie that everyone likes...UDisc and other ratings systems will tell you that.

As an example from a previous post...having a sidewalk nearby is completely irrelevant to whether I want to go play a course. DGCR is going to say "poor design". UDisc is going to give it a terrible rating if you have to wait forever because people are constantly walking on the sidewalk and stopping you from throwing, or a good rating if you never have to wait.

Practically speaking, I check DGCR if I'm planning a "trip" somewhere...even locally. I want to read the journal and justification and take the time to process that information and decide which course I should hit. If I'm in the area and looking for a quick throw, I just wanna know if people like the course or not.
I don't really agree with any of this. Perhaps I am not interested in the "social media" effect. I am not into how you feel. I don't care about your fun. I am not interested in your experience. None of it relates to how the course will play for me.

A review, to me, is a tool to be used by others, to assist in whether I want play the course, what I might need or how to prepare, to play the course. Direction assistance, navigation tips, highlights to look for, trouble to beware of..... It is an aid to other disc golfers. Not a diary of your life experiences. I suppose this is my age and reluctance to embrace the internet review evolution.

I think some here focus on course design, but the power of this site has always been the readers opportunity, to sift through the reviews to find what they need. I am a traveling player. I want to play higher rated courses, but not only for course design. I have a laundry list of amenities that are important to me. I look for many of those before or equal to course design quality.

I do appreciate your opinion here though. Blogs, forums are designed for relating your experience and thoughts.

If I am looking at shoes, I don't want to hear about how much fun you had shopping. I am not interested in knowing you heard your favorite song, on the way to the store. I want to know about the shoe.

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  #27  
Old 12-29-2021, 10:40 AM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post

If I am looking at shoes, I don't want to hear about how much fun you had shopping. I am not interested in knowing you heard your favorite song, on the way to the store. I want to know about the shoe.
If I'm looking for a shoe, i want to hear from people who have worn the shoe and whether they find it comfortable and would recommend it...I don't care that they are trying to place themselves in the role of shoe designer to marvel at the creativity and technical precision of the shoe design that they hated wearing.

My time has value. Sometimes I have the free time to dig through reviews and try to parse the pieces that might offer some glimpse into what my own experience might be. Sometimes I just need to know that 95% of people hated it...and I'll run the risk that I might have fallen into the 5% who thought it was magnificent.

I'm not going to plan a trip to another state to play the best courses there and spend 60 seconds checking UDisc ratings...I'm looking for well written reviews that I'm ok pouring over. I'm not spending an hour parsing DGCR reviews to know whether the course next to the hotel I'm staying at for work is worth popping over to play a quick round at.

I AM interested in this part though:

"I am not interested in your experience. None of it relates to how the course will play for me."

What are you doing on these courses that makes you think nobody else's experience playing the course relates to how the course will play for you? Do you play disc golf so differently than everyone else on the planet?

All I can think about is a conversation I had with someone I know...we were playing a course and almost everyone was loving the way a hole weaved through some large trees. Rough paraphrasing here:

"This hole looks fun"

"This hole sucks, all I throw is tomahawks and there are trees everywhere"

"Ummm, yeah...I guess if all you throw is tomahawks this is gonna suck".

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Old 12-29-2021, 12:06 PM
itsRudy itsRudy is offline
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Eh, very low entry of barrier for a lot of players who play few courses. I understand the inflated ratings.

When I was a new reviewer with less than six courses under my belt, it was easy to impress me and I put an over-reliance on tee signs and such that really only affected first time players. Some average bigger course impressed me from the community course run of the mill I was used to.

At over 50 course, my perspective changed a lot. I don't even notice tee signs and other niceties all that much unless it's a course I don't see baskets from the tee, I care how it plays. A lot of earlier courses that used to be impressive are now just ordinary once I saw the competition.

And I'm sure my POV will change with 250 courses. Or 1,250, if I ever get there.

What Udisc should do with scores is weigh them according to how many other courses that scorer has done. Rater has 1 rating under his belt? Shouldn't count as much as someone who rated 100 on their app.

I have more irks with Udisc about how courses are getting tons of different maps everytime someone want to show off his one-off safari layout or even just one or two teepads from the main, or making a 2x-3x course map when it should just be a scorecard change. That's the stuff getting tiresome, scrolling thru a bunch of irrelevant maps.

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Old 12-29-2021, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by itsRudy View Post
I have more irks with Udisc about how courses are getting tons of different maps everytime someone want to show off his one-off safari layout or even just one or two teepads from the main, or making a 2x-3x course map when it should just be a scorecard change. That's the stuff getting tiresome, scrolling thru a bunch of irrelevant maps.
Or the people who like to try and change the pars.

Sorry, dude. That non-technical 411’ hole is not a par four just because you suck at disc golf.

(Sorry for the derailment.)

I don’t rate courses but if I did the difficulty level of the course would weigh heavily into my rating. Any course I play blind for the first time and shoot at or below par probably deserves a low rating for being too easy or boring. A course that challenges me and is difficult to score well on would get a higher rating. Most Udisc raters seem to take an opposite approach.

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  #30  
Old 12-29-2021, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsRudy View Post
I have more irks with Udisc about how courses are getting tons of different maps everytime someone want to show off his one-off safari layout or even just one or two teepads from the main, or making a 2x-3x course map when it should just be a scorecard change. That's the stuff getting tiresome, scrolling thru a bunch of irrelevant maps.
Agreed! I have been told that they are in the process of changing this so that only certain people can make those changes. I hope that is true.

Having said that, I only use UDisc when I get to a new course and the tee signs and directional signage are so bad that I am forced to pull out my phone to find my way around the course.


Last edited by WD09; 12-29-2021 at 01:05 PM.
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