#11  
Old 01-29-2020, 11:49 PM
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brutalbrutus brutalbrutus is online now
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Not from their perspective.

I only question whether it can be called sponsorship rather than simply the entry fee. Like when the TD does the finances for the event, does he list gross entry for MPO as the $50 it was listed as or the $75 ($50 + $25 sponsorship) that every entrant paid? If it's the former, it seems like a bit of a loophole that could be exploited by a shrewd TD. Why not call every entry fee $10 no matter the actual amount paid and the rest is "sponsorship" that the TD can do with as he pleases? Meeting payout requirements would be a cinch. At least this new rule closes out that possibility.
I know the first couple years they did it at BG Ams, there was also a larger/better player pack. I think you got at least one more disc and a collared dry fit with your name and PDGA# on it instead of the basic event logo dryfit everyone else got. So, its not like he was just pocketing the extra $25 or whatever it was more than the normal entry fee.
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  #12  
Old 01-30-2020, 07:44 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
I know the first couple years they did it at BG Ams, there was also a larger/better player pack. I think you got at least one more disc and a collared dry fit with your name and PDGA# on it instead of the basic event logo dryfit everyone else got. So, its not like he was just pocketing the extra $25 or whatever it was more than the normal entry fee.
Wasn't suggesting that a TD would be pocketing the money, just that one could manipulate the financial report any way he wishes. I'm picturing something along the lines of charging everyone $50 for a B-tier but calling it a $10 entry and a (mandatory) $40 sponsorship. Pay out every dime of that $50 and no more and as long as there are at least 19 pros, and you can claim the added cash threshold is met without actually adding a single dollar outside of what the pro players paid in (19 x $40 = $760). Perhaps within the rules but certainly unethical. New rule prevents it entirely.

I don't think any TD ever actually did anything like that, but as I said before, I have seen a tournament fill to capacity with "sponsors" before open registration began. The TD operated as he had intended (called sponsorship sponsorship) which is fine since he didn't set out to create that dilemma, but it opened my eyes to the potential for abuse.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:04 AM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
I like it, but it doesn't go far enough.

Some events are open to those who can type fastest in a flash online registration. That's not a great method, either.

I'm TD of one of those events, and we're scrambling to find a better solution. Our hopes to go to multiple weekends ran into a crowded local calendar. So we're still working on it.
Do you remember when we used to have to go down to the record store to get line numbers so when concert tickets went on sale for the really big shows you would have a spot in the line? Good times. We used to have to drive to wherever the concert was, get the line ticket, go home and come back some other day to stand in a line to actually buy the tickets. I think about that when my daughter is complaining about planning her day around when ticket sales go live on a website; I had to plan two separate trips to Kansas City just to get a nosebleed ticket to see The Who, then come back a third time to actually see the show. Kids these days...

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Old 01-30-2020, 11:29 AM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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State Coordinators were receiving A LOT of complaints about early registration and how it conflicted with the competition manual. This got sent up the chain by multiple state coordinators and we arrived at this.

Personally, I think this is a fantastic solution.

The PDGA should not tell TD's you can't do this. There are too many variables such as a club members, high dollar sponsors, etc.

The PDGA also shouldn't let TD's do whatever they want. There has to be standards and expectations at all PDGA events regardless of where it is.

The Comp committee took all of this in consideration and arrived at this middle ground. I don't necessarily agree with it perfectly - I would have like to seen the caps tier based - but this really is fantastic.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
Do you remember when we used to have to go down to the record store to get line numbers so when concert tickets went on sale for the really big shows you would have a spot in the line? Good times. We used to have to drive to wherever the concert was, get the line ticket, go home and come back some other day to stand in a line to actually buy the tickets. I think about that when my daughter is complaining about planning her day around when ticket sales go live on a website; I had to plan two separate trips to Kansas City just to get a nosebleed ticket to see The Who, then come back a third time to actually see the show. Kids these days...
And I remember people camping out overnight in long lines, for sporting event & concert tickets. Not for the events, just the tickets.

I also remember ambushing a disc golf tournament TD at his house, to hand him my registration in the days of paper registrations, for a fast -filling event.

I don't know the answer to demand-exceeding-supply. At least those concert tickets from decades ago earned their tickets by their extra effort and inconvenience. In disc golf, spots are going to those who can type fastest, and I'm not sure that's the best qualifier.

They're not putting any more weekends onto the calendar, and not every event can expand the field, and I'm not sure the market approach of raising entry fees to meet demand is desirable, either.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:00 PM
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Rob Martin Rob Martin is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
They're just codifying something that's been tacitly allowed for years. It's not as though any of these practices have every been explicitly disallowed, and they've all been used in various events for years. This is basically to end the debate some have raised that the rules don't already allow it.

The one thing I like about the rule is there will be caps on how many players can early register as club members or sponsors. I have witnessed tournaments filling entirely on "sponsor" entries before official registration opened, which I found patently unfair. If everyone paid an extra $25 or $50 or whatever the sponsorship was, is it really a sponsorship or did the TD trick everyone into paying a higher entry fee than originally advertised?
At the 2018 TD Director's Cup it was explicitly disallowed via PDGA personnel.

That being said, as a TD, I think it is reasonable to allow up to 10% of tournament spots to be reserved for those that are donating $.

Last edited by Rob Martin; 01-30-2020 at 12:02 PM. Reason: incorrect information
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  #17  
Old 01-30-2020, 12:05 PM
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ru4por ru4por is online now
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I ponied up a tee sign sponsorship fee for Ledgestone. I obviously have no issues with the practice. It saves me the stress and hassle of "speed sign up" and gives a great opportunity to promote my club. I suppose a club could even be reimbursing a club member for the sponsorship, if so inclined. I did not follow such a path, but having the chance to promote Ann Arbor disc golf is pretty cool, IMO.

I did assume the money was going to a separate and unique fund. I envisioned some going to the courses, helping to defray the cost of water, parties and such. I could be wrong. I would hope, moving forward maybe some guidelines on how this money is used, could be set up through the PDGA.
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  #18  
Old 01-30-2020, 05:46 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post

The PDGA also shouldn't let TD's do whatever they want. There has to be standards and expectations at all PDGA events regardless of where it is.
Standards and expectations: PDGA rules of play are upheld, PDGA gets their money, Tier standards are upheld in regard to payout,etc.

Regarding registration for their events TD's should indeed be able to do whatever they want.
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Old 01-30-2020, 06:18 PM
curmudgeonDwindle curmudgeonDwindle is offline
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Originally Posted by riltim View Post
How would you feel if you sponsored an event and didn't get a chance to play in it? This makes sense to me.
Seems pretty easy to make one's sponsorship contingent on an entry...no?
Ask for what you want?
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  #20  
Old 01-30-2020, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Standards and expectations: PDGA rules of play are upheld, PDGA gets their money, Tier standards are upheld in regard to payout,etc.

Regarding registration for their events TD's should indeed be able to do whatever they want.
Agree, but I think transparency is appropriate and likely to be more profitable in the long run. Now I kind of want to know what my hole sponsorship for Ledgestone is going to. Guess I should have thought about that before giving up my money.
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