Flat Swing Plane Does Not Exist!

[deyo7]

Originally Posted by sidewinder22

Follow Up

Would you please take me through your thought process of why in this video you demonstrated how when braced and rear foot everts behind that shoulder in the follow through remained INTERNALLY rotated? Whereas I believe in first video, "dingle arm, flat swing does not exist," you discussed external rotation with follow through as way of natural and safe release, I believe.

I had a few rounds where I was absolutely crushing, 50-80ft farther than normal but then I lost the feeling. I've rewatched these videos and revisited windmill and backward bowl feeling and I'm certain that I have been externally rotating the shoulder prematurely. I've been giving the Ricky high five way early, which causes a loss of that late and fast tip of the whip/sling of the disc. Shoulder lean and athletic tilt while focusing on internal rotation seems to put me back into what I hope will be good position to get the magic back.

I rewatched some pro footage and I see the Sepo (thrower in "tilted" gif, right?) seems to keep his shoulder internally rotated, maybe neutral, but thumb seems to finish down. Feldberg also keeps shoulder internally rotated and thumb down in finish. Whereas Ricky and others externally rotate thumb up in the follow through. Is that indicative of type of shot, style, body type or other?

Is it safe to try get body in position to hold that internal rotation of the shoulder longer?

Does that make sense? Thank you, as always.

[sidewinder22]

Originally Posted by deyo7

Would you please take me through your thought process of why in this video you demonstrated how when braced and rear foot everts behind that shoulder in the follow through remained INTERNALLY rotated? Whereas I believe in first video, "dingle arm, flat swing does not exist," you discussed external rotation with follow through as way of natural and safe release, I believe.

I had a few rounds where I was absolutely crushing, 50-80ft farther than normal but then I lost the feeling. I've rewatched these videos and revisited windmill and backward bowl feeling and I'm certain that I have been externally rotating the shoulder prematurely. I've been giving the Ricky high five way early, which causes a loss of that late and fast tip of the whip/sling of the disc. Shoulder lean and athletic tilt while focusing on internal rotation seems to put me back into what I hope will be good position to get the magic back.

I rewatched some pro footage and I see the Sepo (thrower in "tilted" gif, right?) seems to keep his shoulder internally rotated, maybe neutral, but thumb seems to finish down. Feldberg also keeps shoulder internally rotated and thumb down in finish. Whereas Ricky and others externally rotate thumb up in the follow through. Is that indicative of type of shot, style, body type or other?

Is it safe to try get body in position to hold that internal rotation of the shoulder longer?

Does that make sense? Thank you, as always.

I think it depends on wether your arm finishes above or below the shoulders. The arm can not follow thru/abduct horizontally all the way around on plane with the shoulders or if you do you will stop the arm short jamming up and popping the humerus outward of socket instead of rotating the humerus around in socket one direction or the other to allow the hand to follow thru/decelerate with more range of motion.

[UhhNegative]

Deyo I don't know the answer to your question, but check out these videos. I'm not aware of any video shot at a higher FPS than this series of short videos from 2015. Makes it way easier to see the small motions at/during release which is nearly impossible in a typical video shot at a normal FPS.


Looks like Paul doesn't really supinate or pronate through release on his backhands. His bicep tendons (maybe just the loose muscle/fat) bounce slightly supinated after release. I'm guessing the force of the release of the disc dissipates a lot of the force of the shot. Only problem is you have to have everything else set up well to actually focus all of that energy into the disc rather than through the arm. Better form = less injuries and further distance!



Paige looks very similar to how Paul releases. You even see the same bicep bounce upwards.


Drew Gibson looks like he supinates a lot more through release. Looks more painful to me.


KJ pronates through the finish more, but you still see the bicep jump upwards/supination. And has a sweet huck face.


Will release similar to KJ. I've always thought his throw looked a little bit "roundy" and you can see how far behind his body the disc goes on the reachback.


This Ricky vid is interesting. It's only forehand but in the first throw he pronates through release then quickly goes back to palm up. He probably doesn't even know he pronates through release as I believe he preaches to keep the palm up.

[deyo7]

Originally Posted by UhhNegative

Deyo I don't know the answer to your question, but check out these videos. I'm not aware of any video shot at a higher FPS than this series of short videos from 2015. Makes it way easier to see the small motions at/during release which is nearly impossible in a typical video shot at a normal FPS.


Looks like Paul doesn't really supinate or pronate through release on his backhands. His bicep tendons (maybe just the loose muscle/fat) bounce slightly supinated after release. I'm guessing the force of the release of the disc dissipates a lot of the force of the shot. Only problem is you have to have everything else set up well to actually focus all of that energy into the disc rather than through the arm. Better form = less injuries and further distance!



Paige looks very similar to how Paul releases. You even see the same bicep bounce upwards.


Drew Gibson looks like he supinates a lot more through release. Looks more painful to me.


KJ pronates through the finish more, but you still see the bicep jump upwards/supination. And has a sweet huck face.


Will release similar to KJ. I've always thought his throw looked a little bit "roundy" and you can see how far behind his body the disc goes on the reachback.


This Ricky vid is interesting. It's only forehand but in the first throw he pronates through release then quickly goes back to palm up. He probably doesn't even know he pronates through release as I believe he preaches to keep the palm up.

Nice call with those videos. Really interesting to watch the angles that they pretty much all to a certain degree put on the disc. You can see really well how Paige manipulates it, doing exactly what SW talks about in the "Flat Swing does not Exist" and "Tilted Twirl" vids. That is, she externally rotates shoulder/supinates hand during backswing, then goes back to internal rotation just before release. Also interesting that she was carrying the disc like Sepo in that pronated position, allowing it to dangle, before the external rotation in backswing.

I think, when trying to throw this way, my body is naturally wants to work more like Paul and Paiges most of the way through but then it wants to supinate to a greater degree late in the follow through behind back. Regardless, right at the disc release I believe there's a natural release/external rotation that has to happen even if I feel like I'm pronating and continuing to internally rotate through. Which I think is the same thing you're pointing out, with the bicep bounce. It's the safe release of the hammer, like in SWs aforementioned vids.

SO SW22, to clarify, was it intentional that you were demonstrating the internal rotation all the way through the follow through in the "Tilted Twirl" vs how in "Dingle - Flat Does note Exist" you talked about the external rotation in follow through with Ricky high five?
Or is the difference inconsequential, with one being you were just talking about safe release and what happens in follow through and you're making different point in Tilted for example ... Maybe Ricky was finishing higher, for example.

Like, starting around 5.45 in "Tilted" were you simply trying to demonstrate that when you're braced and you make the proper linear move forward, that it should send your arm up and away from your center. That is the momentum should carry your arm forward in such a manner... Or does your arm always naturally internally rotate in follow through? Both/and etc?

[sidewinder22]

I think either the body starts recoiling forward internally to the extended arm, and/or the arm recoils internally back around the body/butt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dz49D5-4tQ#t=32s