2019 DGPT Championship Charlotte, NC Oct 18- 20

[Harold Duvall]

I want everyone to want to play Innova.

I also want the very best to play their very best. I want Paul's ankle to heal, Eagle's hand to mend, and Ricky's health to return. And I want to see Catrina play as fiercely inside the circle as she does outside. She did not appear to me to give up inside the circle, thankfully. Quitting is much harder to fix.

[JTacoma03]

Originally Posted by Harold Duvall

I believe this is incomplete. While I agree that mental fortitude is not equal to a happy attitude, I do not believe that Catrina's inside the circle putting reflects a strong mental game. There appear to be two Catrinas. On the tee, Catrina is a lion, and it takes a lion's courage, or mental fortitude, to fire shot after shot into the circle of uncertain putting. Inside the circle, there appears to be a different Catrina, at least as viewed from the comfort of my couch. There are some pretty simple fixes to her short putt mindset and mechanics. While these are pretty straightforward, they are not necessarily easy. This is where her champion's heart will really come in to play, and potentially allow her to grasp several more world championships.

Originally Posted by 1978

If anyone watched Catrina, I dont know how they could say she has strong mental fortitude near the basket. She clearly gave up taking any time to concentrate on her putts in the middle. She won the event despite herself. She wasnt missing like Drew was missing, she was missing because she thought it was over.

The common characterization that I disagree with in terms of judging mental game is that, seemingly, both of your arguments equate the act of making mistakes with a "lower score" on the mental fortitude exam. Correct me if I'm misreading that.

However, the fact that Catrina can 3-putt from birdie to bogey from inside the circle, and then immediately Eagle the following hole by canning a circle's-edge tester is more important to me as a whole than the singular fact that she drove well on 12 and then missed putts. If her mental game was weak, she would have lost after 12, and double down after she goes Eagle-Birdie then Double Bogey on 15. Recognizing fallibility and imperfection inherent in the player and still achieving greatness despite it is the ultimate display of mental fortitude in my eyes.

The way I see it, executing to perfection doesn't mean your mental game is the best, that means your preparation was on point. Mental game is about getting back up when golf lands a haymaker on your temple, having a clear mind when things are going well is EZ. I can't think of a more foundation-shaking event on a golf course than missing something inside of 10'.

Let me ask it this way-

Would we also say in this case, if Catrina has poor mental fortitude, that Paige also does?

Paige has round-by-round rollercoasters where she will play a course to near-perfection and then the next day tag first available tree 5 times in the first 6 holes.

[Casey 1988]

Originally Posted by ru4por

I am not sure it makes much difference in AM's, outside of a few high 900 and 1000 rated MA1 guys. I have seen very few effective jump or step putting in the AM ranks. The same issues that make stand and deliver putting inconsistent, are still the problem with their jump putting.

I guess I don't really see the point of jump putting anyway. I have spend a lifetime throwing a Frisbee to a friend from nearly any distance. Fairly accurately, I might add.

I do not either anymore with the stand and back leg pushing body forward more and more to a point ~37 feet to ~40 feet where I start to use a Shark as the approach putting disc more in a putting style then an approach style throw can go as far back with a putter to 40 feet. I did a jump putt while in the air but straight up before putting at the spot ~34 feet on back at one point in the 2000's before I stopped for using a different putter disc Upshot #2 in Prostyle for approach shots still in the bag for other shots or a Wizard that I gave away to a friend.

[Harold Duvall]

Not trying to be disrespectful, but since you asked .... I feel you mischaracterized what I wrote. I did not speak about mistakes, or execution or perfection.

[mizunodave]

Here is 30 seconds of what I'm talking about with Cat's mental game. From 2:33:20

[roblee]

Originally Posted by Cgkdisc

I'm not sure allowing players to jump sideways should be a problem. It's more athletic and interesting to watch someone try to pull off a better throw from a less than ideal throwing position moving sideways in the air.

Sure but isn't that contrary to the tenant of: play it where it lies? It sounds like "take one giant step" golf. Or maybe I misinterpreted.

[cheesethin]

Originally Posted by Cgkdisc

If you think about it, the disc is usually released in front of your lie so it's not strange at all. But requiring players to land behind their lie after releasing before moving forward past it isn't a bad idea. But then, you have to also decide whether they need to maintain balance and make a judgment about that whereas allowing players to simply release before landing in front, even if they fall or continue stepping forward, would probably reduce the need to make fault calls.

Originally Posted by DiscFifty

I've suggested this for years around here. And was always met with some negativity. I'm glad people are finally seeing the need for something like this. Let players, jump, step, dance, all they want, but land in back of your lie before releasing the disc. Would definitely reduce the need to make fault calls, and also visibly much easier visually to do so if desired.

DiscFifty, I don't think you and Cgkdisc are saying the same thing. I think Cgkdisc is talking about players releasing before they have a supporting point within the lie. What you appear to be saying DiscFifty is currently legal - that players can do what ever the hell they want as long as they have a supporting point within the lie at the point of release.

Apologies if I have misunderstood either of you.

[1978]

Originally Posted by JTacoma03

The common characterization that I disagree with in terms of judging mental game is that, seemingly, both of your arguments equate the act of making mistakes with a "lower score" on the mental fortitude exam. Correct me if I'm misreading that.

However, the fact that Catrina can 3-putt from birdie to bogey from inside the circle, and then immediately Eagle the following hole by canning a circle's-edge tester is more important to me as a whole than the singular fact that she drove well on 12 and then missed putts. If her mental game was weak, she would have lost after 12, and double down after she goes Eagle-Birdie then Double Bogey on 15. Recognizing fallibility and imperfection inherent in the player and still achieving greatness despite it is the ultimate display of mental fortitude in my eyes.

The way I see it, executing to perfection doesn't mean your mental game is the best, that means your preparation was on point. Mental game is about getting back up when golf lands a haymaker on your temple, having a clear mind when things are going well is EZ. I can't think of a more foundation-shaking event on a golf course than missing something inside of 10'.

Let me ask it this way-

Would we also say in this case, if Catrina has poor mental fortitude, that Paige also does?

Paige has round-by-round rollercoasters where she will play a course to near-perfection and then the next day tag first available tree 5 times in the first 6 holes.

Yes, I think you misunderstood. In my opinion and in the opinion of the commentators, Catrina clearly gave up on some of the putts in the middle. Different than worlds when she had more time and could hope for a perfect drive to leave her with a close putt because there were more rounds to be played. Her posture, facial expression, and how she approached her putt, plus the flippant way she putted made it clear to me that she resigned to missing putts and said ..F-it. IF I am going to miss I might as well just flip it at the basket with out trying extra. Completely unrelated, the other women fell apart. That gave her the desire to try again at the end. Paige made some suspect decisions or else Cat would have completely folded and just gone through the motions. She appeared the most detached on hole 12...but then PP blew up 13 and that gave Cat confidence that she wasn't seeing in herself.

[1978]

In the same way you see other pros "quit." If a player has a terrible 10 holes and then takes some crazy 1 line, fraught with risk, that nets an Eagle, you could say...see he didnt give up. I would contend that the player did give up and tried something spectacular that more often than not yields a very high score...but they executed it and lucked into an eagle. Cat getting an eagle had everything to do with Paige putting for double. Cat didn't summon confidence...Paige made it easier because Cat knew even if she missed she still gained 2 strokes. She just happened to make the putt, which happens sometimes, despite yourself.

Its all about the attitude, you can't judge by the result.

[Cgkdisc]

Originally Posted by roblee

Sure but isn't that contrary to the tenant of: play it where it lies? It sounds like "take one giant step" golf. Or maybe I misinterpreted.

The big misunderstanding about disc golf is that we also "play it where it lies" emulating ball golf. We can't do it like ball golf unless we kick the same disc for each shot. Our version is to take a stance in a defined area behind where the disc is marked. The release point, grip, spin and disc angle for the throw has thousands of possible combinations for each lie, and the taller the player, the more possible options. There are even more lateral options for release points as long as the supporting point is behind the tee line.

My point here is that we have chosen our own rule parameters that define where and how players can make their next throw depending on the nature of the tee or where the disc lands and it's only approximately related to "play it where it lies." We have the flexibility to tweak those parameters for a variety of reasons such as making the game more fun, more challenging, more interesting to watch or because players think it's a cool improvement.