Fee threshold for success of private courses.

[ru4por]

Originally Posted by Gblambert

We just opened our courses to the public last week and decided to go a different route. Since there's an abundance of free city park courses in our local area, we decided to charge a low greens fee to draw more customers in - $5 per day for unlimited play on both courses. Then we can sell snacks and beverages, discs, t-shirts, beer, etc in the pro shop. Disc rentals and lessons from a local pro will also be available. A stage is planned for small concerts to hopefully bring in some non-disc golf customers as well. Charging more than $5 in this area would be a tough sell, but by diversifying our revenue stream we hope to make it a profitable business. Time will tell.

Seems like licensing fees, insurance and liability would come into play with these additions.

[jrawk]

Originally Posted by DiscJunkie

Heresy! Blasphemy!
Bring out the Tar and Feathers!

Seriously, I have no problem with making some green on a tourney, especially on private land. Not everybody would agree. We DG'ers tend to have a sense of entitlement.

Nobody seems to care when that 15% goes to local charities. So then when I ask them if they'd rather their money stay within the sport or go to a local charity they almost always say within the sport.

[DavidSauls]

Originally Posted by jrawk

Hosting periodic C-tiers and keeping the allowed 15% per player that can be withheld from payouts can be a big boost to revenue.

on a $40 registration:
withhold the $5 green fee.
and 15% of $35 ($5.25).. That's $10.25 x 72 players for $738 in one day. Then depending on how you manage payouts (paying out vouchers for your on-site store), you can increase your revenue vastly.

Theoretically. A C-tier with what would be very low payouts would have a tough time filling to 72, especially periodically during the year. Knock $100 off for sanctioning & insurance, another $150 for PDGA fees (unless you further reduce the payout), and more for any other expenses.

It would have to be an incredible course, or in an area with lots of tournament-playing disc golfers.

[jrawk]

Originally Posted by DavidSauls

Theoretically. A C-tier with what would be very low payouts would have a tough time filling to 72, especially periodically during the year. Knock $100 off for sanctioning & insurance, another $150 for PDGA fees (unless you further reduce the payout), and more for any other expenses.

It would have to be an incredible course, or in an area with lots of tournament-playing disc golfers.

Yes, as a TD, I fully grasp that. There are, however, many other expenses and many other ways of generating revenue to cover those expenses. Without getting into every detail of hosting an event, if done intelligently, and you have a private course worthy of 72 player fields, then hosting C-tiers *can* be a big source of revenue.

[reposado]

Originally Posted by DavidSauls

Ultimately, I think it is impossible for a disc golf course to turn a profit, if you include the land costs, and the property does not also generate income from other uses.

courses in maine do. but they don't average 50 players a week. they average at least 100 a day in the summer. pleasant hill probably over 300 a day in the summer and they they close up shop in the winter.


but there aren't free courses in the area, which is very necessary for it to work

[DavidSauls]

Originally Posted by reposado

courses in maine do. but they don't average 50 players a week. they average at least 100 a day in the summer. pleasant hill probably over 300 a day in the summer and they they close up shop in the winter.


but there aren't free courses in the area, which is very necessary for it to work

Do they cover the costs of purchasing the land? I haven't played those courses, and have no idea what land costs there are like. But I am aware that they are successful, on some level, for the very reason you cite.

After I posted about it being impossible, I started thinking about Blue Ribbon Pines. I've heard that it's doing very well but, again, I'm not sure if that means well enough to cover the land costs. It might.

[DavidSauls]

Originally Posted by jrawk

Yes, as a TD, I fully grasp that. There are, however, many other expenses and many other ways of generating revenue to cover those expenses. Without getting into every detail of hosting an event, if done intelligently, and you have a private course worthy of 72 player fields, then hosting C-tiers *can* be a big source of revenue.

As both a private course owner where we run C-tiers, I'll certainly agree that running tournaments is a way to add some income. Unless an awful lot of stars align, I won't go as far as a big source of revenue.

Though I wonder if, say, the original Brackett's Bluff might have had those stars aligned---a great course near the disc golf hotbed of Charlotte.

[Doofenshmirtz]

Originally Posted by reposado

courses in maine do. but they don't average 50 players a week. they average at least 100 a day in the summer. pleasant hill probably over 300 a day in the summer and they they close up shop in the winter.


but there aren't free courses in the area, which is very necessary for it to work

How much do the Maine courses charge to play? Is it per round or per day?

[JC17393]

Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz

How much do the Maine courses charge to play? Is it per round or per day?

Depends entirely on the course. Single round rates tend to range from $4-7. All day rates range from $6-10. Some places they offer both, some do just the flat day rate. Something else to keep in mind is some places have just one 18-hole course, some have two. One has 2.5 (2 18s and a 9-holer). One has three full 18-hole courses. The ones with multiple courses tend to be the ones with the higher rates. My course charges $6 flat rate for the day with just one 18-hole course.

Most courses around here were built on land that the owners already had, whether it is the land their own home is on or old family land (more than one old family farm is now a disc golf course) or simply another business that they added to or replaced with disc golf.

Some examples...one course (Pleasant Hill mentioned up thread) used to be a 9-hole ball golf course that the family converted. Another course was built on land already operating a ball golf driving range, batting cages and mini golf. There's another at a working farm/orchard...their pro shop is in the same building as their bakery and gift shop. There's another on the grounds of a dance/concert hall. There are a couple courses built on campgrounds, including the first basketed course in New England and one of the first ten in the world at Beaver Brook Campground.

So for some, there wasn't necessarily a land purchase expense, at least not directly related to the course itself. The land was already there and paid for (or the mortgage was getting paid already), and for various reasons they added disc golf to the property. I don't think anyone is getting rich running a disc golf course as a business, but most places seem to at least be making enough to keep the lights on. Of course, what it takes to do that varies greatly from course to course.


If you want to look at a case of P2P co-existing with perfectly good free courses nearby, a great example is central MA where you have Maple Hill and Pyramids (Marshall Street) thriving in the middle of a bunch of really good free public options. Pretty sure Maple Hill charges $10 for the day and every time I've ever been there outside of a tournament situation, the course is busy. Not straight out three group back up on every tee kind of busy, but on any random afternoon/evening, you're not going to have the place to yourself by any means.

P2P disc golf, like any business, can thrive anywhere if it's done right.

[sidewinder22]

Originally Posted by reposado

courses in maine do. but they don't average 50 players a week. they average at least 100 a day in the summer. pleasant hill probably over 300 a day in the summer and they they close up shop in the winter.


but there aren't free courses in the area, which is very necessary for it to work

100-300 players a day?