#21  
Old 08-06-2020, 01:50 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
Captain Oblivous!
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 892
Niced 71 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaROCaM View Post
Are you saying a continuous relatively straight line from reachback to release?

Again, focus on the concepts. No one throws with exactly the motions in the various drills. They are meant to help feel various parts of the throw that one might be having trouble feeling.

For example, elephant walk drill to get down the timing of swinging once you are on the leg you are swinging into.

Pendulum for various things; when you get it right (especially along with the concept behind the elephant drill) it will actually decrease rounding by keeping the front shoulder from collapsing. It also helps to get more of the free flowing swinging feel rather than the mechanical robotic throw that can come from trying to "glue together" various parts of the throw. Gets you swinging rather than dragging.

Once you figure out how the pendulum fits in, when you watch all those pros throwing again you will see it.

This thread has a lot that should help: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=134415
Straight relatively speaking. The elephant drill teaches an arc motion from high, around and down through the arc and into release. The elephant drill would be fine if you weren't trying to add the arm arc motion in. That will teach bad muscle memory.
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-06-2020, 02:10 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 15.8
Courses Played: 253
Posts: 19,497
Niced 6,942 Times in 4,006 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Straight relatively speaking. The elephant drill teaches an arc motion from high, around and down through the arc and into release. The elephant drill would be fine if you weren't trying to add the arm arc motion in. That will teach bad muscle memory.
Not sure what you are trying to say. The body doesn't work efficiently on flat or straight swing paths.




Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-06-2020, 03:14 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
Captain Oblivous!
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 892
Niced 71 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Not sure what you are trying to say. The body doesn't work efficiently on flat or straight swing paths.
I'm trying to say that from the side, on some of these elephant drills that arm swings around like the hand of a clock and then into release. Paige Pierce is a great example of a straight flight path as viewed from the side.
https://youtu.be/ZOofFbzTgjo
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-06-2020, 03:45 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 15.8
Courses Played: 253
Posts: 19,497
Niced 6,942 Times in 4,006 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
I'm trying to say that from the side, on some of these elephant drills that arm swings around like the hand of a clock and then into release. Paige Pierce is a great example of a straight flight path as viewed from the side.
https://youtu.be/ZOofFbzTgjo



Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-06-2020, 03:56 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
Captain Oblivous!
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 892
Niced 71 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Paige Pierce. I need say nothing further.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-06-2020, 04:06 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 15.8
Courses Played: 253
Posts: 19,497
Niced 6,942 Times in 4,006 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Paige Pierce. I need say nothing further.
Glad you agree.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-06-2020, 04:51 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 15.8
Courses Played: 253
Posts: 19,497
Niced 6,942 Times in 4,006 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Time has proven the power and distance in a disc throw comes from uncoiling the body and reaching relatively straight back and then bringing that disc on a relatively straight line into its release. That's what I mean by that power flight path.
This is wide, narrow, wide. Also wide rail. My throw is similar in starting out wide then bringing it in close. This helps me feel the weight of the disc as it pendulum from wide into narrow.
https://youtu.be/2NNjW2dHoj8

That motion you are speaking of promotes rounding because you are telling your arm to start accelerating from the reach back, in that same circular arc instead of from the power pocket and straight forward. 98 percent of pros don't throw like that.
This is a true power flight path.

Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-06-2020, 05:05 PM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Courses Played: 38
Posts: 1,003
Niced 960 Times in 434 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Straight relatively speaking. The elephant drill teaches an arc motion from high, around and down through the arc and into release. The elephant drill would be fine if you weren't trying to add the arm arc motion in. That will teach bad muscle memory.
Focusing on the wrong thing. The elephant drill teaches delaying the swing until the thrower is on the swing leg. You can replace the arm swing you see in the drill with whatever swing you want if that allows you to understand the drill better. The arm swing shown in the drill keeps it simple and natural. No pulling, jerking, dragging; just a smooth, natural, simple swing that uses natural forces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
I'm trying to say that from the side, on some of these elephant drills that arm swings around like the hand of a clock and then into release. Paige Pierce is a great example of a straight flight path as viewed from the side.
https://youtu.be/ZOofFbzTgjo
Same as above, and like I said earlier, focus on the point of the drill. Also, PP isn't swinging straight or flat from reachback to release. In the video you linked, watch her throwing shoulder and upper arm from the forward pump to reachback through the swing. Pendulum action. The lower arm brings the disc in, then out, but it is attached at the elbow to the pendulum of the shoulder and upper arm. Also, if you take a straight object like a ruler and hold it up to the screen you will see that the disc moves like on a wave (there have already been diagrams showing the wave motion from the side.)

To illustrate further, it is the same thing with the windmill drill. No one is saying to start with the disc above your head for your regular throw. The purpose is for feeling the down shift, working on timing and position, feeling how natural forces like gravity can be harnessed for easy power instead of trying too hard to generate momentum or strongarming. Focus on the concept the drill is training; don't focus on the windmill action. That's focusing on the wrong thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Paige Pierce. I need say nothing further.
True, you don't need to do anything, but if you want to understand better, you need to do some more homework. Since you point out PP, there's video where she demonstrates a footwork drill; if you were there, would you tell her that's not how she throws, or would you try and figure out why she is demonstrating that drill?

Niced: (2)

Last edited by SaROCaM; 08-06-2020 at 05:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-06-2020, 05:54 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
Captain Oblivous!
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 892
Niced 71 Times in 60 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaROCaM View Post
Focusing on the wrong thing. The elephant drill teaches delaying the swing until the thrower is on the swing leg. You can replace the arm swing you see in the drill with whatever swing you want if that allows you to understand the drill better. The arm swing shown in the drill keeps it simple and natural. No pulling, jerking, dragging; just a smooth, natural, simple swing that uses natural forces.



Same as above, and like I said earlier, focus on the point of the drill. Also, PP isn't swinging straight or flat from reachback to release. In the video you linked, watch her throwing shoulder and upper arm from the forward pump to reachback through the swing. Pendulum action. The lower arm brings the disc in, then out, but it is attached at the elbow to the pendulum of the shoulder and upper arm. Also, if you take a straight object like a ruler and hold it up to the screen you will see that the disc moves like on a wave (there have already been diagrams showing the wave motion from the side.)

To illustrate further, it is the same thing with the windmill drill. No one is saying to start with the disc above your head for your regular throw. The purpose is for feeling the down shift, working on timing and position, feeling how natural forces like gravity can be harnessed for easy power instead of trying too hard to generate momentum or strongarming. Focus on the concept the drill is training; don't focus on the windmill action. That's focusing on the wrong thing.



True, you don't need to do anything, but if you want to understand better, you need to do some more homework. Since you point out PP, there's video where she demonstrates a footwork drill; if you were there, would you tell her that's not how she throws, or would you try and figure out why she is demonstrating that drill?
I've seen guys doing this elephant drill and they start with the disc really high then swing it way down in an arc and then into release. That's bad muscle memory training. Always practice your motions and drills in the same manner you correctly throw with.
Reply With Quote
 

  #30  
Old 08-06-2020, 06:00 PM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Courses Played: 38
Posts: 1,003
Niced 960 Times in 434 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Always practice your motions and drills in the same manner you correctly throw with.
Tell that to PP when doing her footwork drill.

Tell that to champion Olympic weightlifters who do drills and motions other than the snatch and C&J.

Tell that to professional MLB pitching trainers who use weighted ball training.

Tell that to athletes and coaches using overspeed training.

Guess you have all the answers while all these professionals are doing it wrong.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I just bought the best white elephant gift ever! NateTrib General Disc Golf Chat 23 12-12-2014 07:34 AM
Another One for Pink Elephant skinner21 Disc Dyeing 7 07-05-2010 11:06 PM
Pec Drill vs Nose Down Catch Drill sbinwien Technique & Strategy 17 05-20-2010 10:07 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.