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View Poll Results: McBeth vs. Climo
McBeth 143 64.13%
Climo 80 35.87%
Voters: 223. You may not vote on this poll

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  #151  
Old 04-19-2019, 06:14 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
I'm confused? Are you trying to say that every player rating is directly relatable to every other player rating throughout the history of ratings?
Directly? No. Indirectly? without question.

Chuck and Roger took the cash line at 98 Cincinatti Worlds (pretty sure that was the event) and set that as 1000 rated. Initially only the players playing that event would have had ratings. They then "went forth and propagated" so to speak. At that point C&R were actually looking for a way to compare courses moreso than players. I'm sure Chuck will correct me if I am wrong. Since then ratings spread outward like ripples in a pool from those initial propagators.
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  #152  
Old 04-19-2019, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Directly? No. Indirectly? without question.

Chuck and Roger took the cash line at 98 Cincinatti Worlds (pretty sure that was the event) and set that as 1000 rated. Initially only the players playing that event would have had ratings. They then "went forth and propagated" so to speak. At that point C&R were actually looking for a way to compare courses moreso than players. I'm sure Chuck will correct me if I am wrong. Since then ratings spread outward like ripples in a pool from those initial propagators.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying they relate because they all came from the same starting point. To me, that isn't the same as saying that a rating from a round thrown at this year's USDGC is directly relatable to a round rating at an event in 1995 or so. Or that comparing a players rating in 2019 directly to a player's rating in 1995 has merit. So, are you saying that those are worthwhile comparisons?

My 2013 subaru WRX is related to Benz's first automobile, but I'd never think the two were relatable. I wouldn't think a model T was relatable to Benz's first vehicle either.
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  #153  
Old 04-19-2019, 08:09 PM
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Some of the comments here made me consider the Paul Ken relationship in a different way. The discussions centered around Climo's mental ferocity intrigue me. We've seen that in one instance, where Climo went after Stokely on a foot fault. I'm not questioning the fault, simply observing how Climo went after him. At the time many felt that Patrick Brown and Climo went after Stokely. Climo made the call, a fairly unusual call in open field situations, and without a thought, Brown seconded. Stokely threw again and the call sequence was repeated. It was brutal and completely killed Stokley's tournament.

As an aside, the event annoyed me for two reasons, I've seen Kenny footfault plenty and don't ever recall someone calling him out. And the calls really did seem coordinated, as if Ken and Patrick agreed Stokely was faulting and went after him. Given the type of call, it seemed cynical.

If part of Ken's vaunted mental approach was going after his competitors, I have to wonder how well that would transfer to today's more videos and commented on rounds? How would fans comment about such tactics and how long, given today's environment, before someone told him to knock it off? For example, there was the sign incident where a sign showed up in a location it hadn't been the year before and Ken melted because it was in his way. I can see a player telling him to knock it off, see Jerm telling Nikko to knock it off when Nikko was dressing down a basket for not holding onto his putt.

So, how well would Ken and Paul match up twenty years ago, and how much of Ken's edge would be taken away in Paul's environment, today?

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  #154  
Old 04-22-2019, 04:41 PM
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BuiltTooLong BuiltTooLong is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueMonk View Post
Are you sure it's really Ken? I've never seen a Climo social media account. There was a spoof Twitter account that isn't active anymore. Link?
He shares one with his spouse.

https://www.facebook.com/kellywnekken.climo

But it's def not a spoof account and I don't have a link to this specific comment. He's made other bitter comments as well though unfortunately.

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  #155  
Old 04-23-2019, 02:56 PM
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7ontheline 7ontheline is offline
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Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post

So, how well would Ken and Paul match up twenty years ago, and how much of Ken's edge would be taken away in Paul's environment, today?
Three years ago, Paul put Ricky on blast about his mental game. It could be argued that it may have backfired and pissed Ricky off enough for him to make every putt for the following two years including two world titles.

Maybe for Paul it’s just easier to not poke the bear where Scott S might not handle the gamesmanship, so everyone’s different, go figure
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  #156  
Old 04-23-2019, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 7ontheline View Post
Three years ago, Paul put Ricky on blast about his mental game. It could be argued that it may have backfired and pissed Ricky off enough for him to make every putt for the following two years including two world titles.

Maybe for Paul it’s just easier to not poke the bear where Scott S might not handle the gamesmanship, so everyone’s different, go figure
Absolutely! It's interesting how such things go. But I'd argue the situations are quite different. Paul poked Ricky in public, in an interview nonetheless. Climo's mo was on the course. It sounds like he rode the guys on his card like a horse. Both directly, and indirectly. To my knowledge, Paul doesn't do this. Yes, I've seen some calls on a few things, but they were one-offs and seemed to be pretty minor overall.

It is quite possible that Paul regretted his poke at Ricky, although at the time, some, many thought it was less gamesmanship than marketing per se. Regardless, I'd not give Paul credit for Ricky's wins, i.e. he poked Ricky. I'd give Ricky's focus and hard work credit for that, but that is just me.

But you raise an interesting question. Are players today more resistant to online or public poking than players of twenty years ago? There are studies that show millennials and younger are much less phased by online attacks than older folks.

For me, the question is still open, how does Ken perform in a more modern setting? And how would Paul do back then?
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  #157  
Old 04-23-2019, 03:58 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
My 2013 subaru WRX is related to Benz's first automobile, but I'd never think the two were relatable.
You can certainly compare how fast they go. Even if you use each car's own speedometer, because they both derive their calibration of speed back to the same original source.
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  #158  
Old 04-23-2019, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BuiltTooLong View Post
He shares one with his spouse.

https://www.facebook.com/kellywnekken.climo

But it's def not a spoof account and I don't have a link to this specific comment. He's made other bitter comments as well though unfortunately.
Climo is my age and the comments I've read of his sounded to me like the stuff people our age would say on the course to each other in the 90's to ride each other. When it's said quickly with no one reflecting on it, it's seen by many as funny ribbing, just trying to get under somebody's skin.

Once it's typed out and sits around for people to ponder the meaning of it, you start to see that it's not funny. It sounds blunt and bitter and such. It's not the type of comment that is supposed to be reflected upon. It's supposed to hit quick, make a bunch of grown men regress to the mentality of jr. high kids and giggle, and make the target possibly fume just long enough to shank a drive or miss a putt.

So I don't see it as him actually being bitter. I just see him as a guy who isn't really comfortable in the online world posting in a way that he would talk on the course and not really realizing how it comes off in the online environment.

tl;dr. Some of us don't realize we aren't funny.

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  #159  
Old 04-23-2019, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
You can certainly compare how fast they go. Even if you use each car's own speedometer, because they both derive their calibration of speed back to the same original source.
Really? The Benz didn't have a speedometer. Could you predict how fast a car would drive in 2019 based on the Benz?

Now, as fun as this is, a direct question might be best, do you feel that the rating of a player from 1995 directly compares to the rating of a player in 2019? One to one?
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  #160  
Old 04-23-2019, 08:36 PM
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The Albatross The Albatross is offline
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Originally Posted by mmblink86 View Post
pretty self explanatory.

after seeing McBeth wipe the floor this year, starting to feel it's him.

kenny just appears so one-dimensional now in retrospect...
I’m disappointed that you created a poll, and immediately tried to sway it in the first post. Poor form.

Example:

This is a poll about whether you think the TWELVE TIME wold champion KEN CLIMO, also known simply as “THE CHAMP,” and the undisputed king of disc golf for an entire decade is the best disc golfer ever, or that new kid paul macbeth has what it takes to be spoken of in the same sentence with the GOAT.

Leave your mostly irrelevant responses below. (We all know who it is)

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