#101  
Old 01-09-2014, 07:43 PM
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What's wrong with alternate fairways? My preference, although that amount of cutting is a luxury in many places, would be to have more holes with alternate routes whether par 3, 4 or 5. I dislike "tubular" wooded golf where the designer mostly forces a single route that requires a particular shot shape. But I get that sometimes you can only get permission to open one route.
tubular wooded golf with forced lanes or clearly defined multiple routes that require different shots are good

im not a fan of different routes that can be mistakenly hit and rewarded
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  #102  
Old 01-09-2014, 07:52 PM
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Swope in KC is a good example where a throw that's worse can result in a better landing. Former great, Scott Stokely and I had a nice discussion about this. And I'm not particularly picking on Swope because this issue arises many places. Several tree lined fairways parallel each other. The single line of trees has spacing maybe 25'-40' apart. If your tee shot is partly offline, you're likely to hit one of the trees, lose distance and land in another fairway. If you are more offline, your shot may race down the next door fairway and get most of the distance you intended, maybe even hyzering back in. There's not an easy way to deal with this lack of proportional penalty relative to the quality of your release other than maybe making the tree line OB. That would be pretty brutal though because the fairways weren't that wide. My point being that if you are faced with alternate fairway situations, do your best to set up the holes to minimize too much reward for poor shots if possible.
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  #103  
Old 01-09-2014, 07:55 PM
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If I hyzer out early I dont deserve to have a clear fairway shot but on many courses with multiple tees and lanes I do

the you cant design luck out of design argument is lazy

you can attempt to not design scenarios where a bad shot gets rewarded
Bad shots are never rewarded in my experience maybe get lucky and land in favorable spots where you can get up and down(part of game).

Do you want these bad shots 200 ft in the woods so you can klinko your way for a snowman? Bad shots are never rewarded! You may get lucky though.
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  #104  
Old 01-09-2014, 07:58 PM
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tubular wooded golf with forced lanes or clearly defined multiple routes that require different shots are good

im not a fan of different routes that can be mistakenly hit and rewarded
Part of the fun in disc golf is shot creativity. That doesn't mean you provide every shot option on every hole. But there's no reason why you can't have a lefty route and a righty route to the hole. Or, two hyzers and a straight like Houck's Papa, Mama and baby bear routes on his hole 6 at the IDGC. It sounds like you're against holes with dual routes created by splitter trees which was discussed at length before.
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:05 PM
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Ive had millions of bad shots snake its way through and give me a good outcome. I got lucky. Ive had amazing shots get twig wiggled and ill bogey. I was unlucky. How do you design so I wont be unlucky? If I play a rd with all bad shots with lucky lies its still a ****ty rd and well below what im trying to score on the course
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  #106  
Old 01-09-2014, 08:06 PM
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Part of the fun in disc golf is shot creativity. That doesn't mean you provide every shot option on every hole. But there's no reason why you can't have a lefty route and a righty route to the hole. Or, two hyzers and a straight like Houck's Papa, Mama and baby bear routes on his hole 6 at the IDGC. It sounds like you're against holes with dual routes created by splitter trees which was discussed at length before.
not true at all
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:13 PM
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550 ft tunnel in woods no alt tees an early bad shot 250 ft early hyzer lands in the woods and is punished requiring a tommy or thumber creative risky shot or pitch out back to fairway

550 ft tunnel shot with a 300 ft tunnel shot adjacent to fairway to left with a thin line of woods between the fairways That same bad shot early fade out hyzer is rewarded with a 300ish clear fairway drive to the green

my point is adding fairways often has the effect of cheapening and softening an intended difficult gold level par 4
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  #108  
Old 01-09-2014, 08:27 PM
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Poorly planned alternate routes are just weak like any poorly planned main route. But alternate routes done well enhance, and do not detract from the challenge nor enjoyment of a hole. A well done, tubular, single route course will always be rated lower than a well done course of similar par that has multiple holes with optional routes.

It's as much about balance as challenge. Your theory implies that an open fairway is bad unless it has OB rope on both sides because if you don't drive where you think the player should land, the player must be penalized rather than perhaps have just a less desirable lie than planned?
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Old 01-09-2014, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Part of the fun in disc golf is shot creativity. That doesn't mean you provide every shot option on every hole. But there's no reason why you can't have a lefty route and a righty route to the hole. Or, two hyzers and a straight like Houck's Papa, Mama and baby bear routes on his hole 6 at the IDGC. It sounds like you're against holes with dual routes created by splitter trees which was discussed at length before.
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Poorly planned alternate routes are just weak like any poorly planned main route. But alternate routes done well enhance, and do not detract from the challenge nor enjoyment of a hole. A well done, tubular, single route course will always be rated lower than a well done course of similar par that has multiple holes with optional routes.

It's as much about balance as challenge. Your theory implies that an open fairway is bad unless it has OB rope on both sides because if you don't drive where you think the player should land, the player must be penalized rather than perhaps have just a less desirable lie than planned?
?????
i am discussing a fairway for an alt tee that rewards bad throws

i enjoy a hole with non luck based options

i dont like when i throw a bad shot and get a reward either from another holes fairway or from a short tee fairway on the same hole
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  #110  
Old 01-09-2014, 08:35 PM
tomdizzlefizzle tomdizzlefizzle is online now
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550 ft tunnel in woods no alt tees an early bad shot 250 ft early hyzer lands in the woods and is punished requiring a tommy or thumber creative risky shot or pitch out back to fairway

550 ft tunnel shot with a 300 ft tunnel shot adjacent to fairway to left with a thin line of woods between the fairways That same bad shot early fade out hyzer is rewarded with a 300ish clear fairway drive to the green

my point is adding fairways often has the effect of cheapening and softening an intended difficult gold level par 4
I agree and certainly see your point. But i will never complain about multiple tees offering lanes for the gold tees on bad shots. Bad shot outcomes just are not my concern. Im concerned about throwing a good shot and whatever the outcome of that throwing another good shot.
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