Go Back   Disc Golf Course Review > General Disc Golf Discussions > Tournaments & Leagues

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #141  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:36 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
Par Delusionary
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Years Playing: 45.7
Courses Played: 367
Posts: 5,058
Niced 1,758 Times in 863 Posts
Default

Success is not measured by the percent of violations that get called, it is measured by how often players are playing according to the rules.

At the very top level (Paul) that seems to be about 100%. Of course that percentage goes down as the level of play goes down. That doesn't mean the system is broken.
Sponsored Links

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:40 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
Par Delusionary
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Years Playing: 45.7
Courses Played: 367
Posts: 5,058
Niced 1,758 Times in 863 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
This is pretty good overall, isn't it?
For MPO, hard to say. There's no way to compare one course to another. I don't see any red flags. Rather, I view these charts as a way to focus efforts for the next round of improvements.

For FPO, Hole 11 is useless. Just about everybody got a 3. Doing anything to that hole would be an improvement. It would also seem to be very easy to improve 13 and 9 as well.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 05-15-2019, 08:20 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: spotsylvania, va
Years Playing: 24.7
Courses Played: 94
Posts: 6,818
Niced 2,344 Times in 954 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XC_Eddy View Post
There’s too much at stake for someone to make a call (even a legitimate one) on another player and have it not be a conflict of interest.
I would argue that there is actually too little at stake for the calls to be made rather than too much. See traditional golf for example of sport where there is too much at stake for calls not to be made.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:12 AM
SD86's Avatar
SD86 SD86 is offline
Snowflake
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Atlanta, GA
Courses Played: 8
Posts: 9,292
Niced 2,267 Times in 1,666 Posts
Default

I was able to watch the final FPO round of the SFO last night. Yes, Cat foot-faulted (and right badly) on that one shot we had still shots of earlier. She foot-faulted another few times, and also had times where the shot was legal but she was still to the right side of the marker disc.

So (and this is not excusing her, just observing) I suspect she's gotten into the habit of being to the right of the disc and sometimes steps too far. This appears to be sloppiness as opposed to malicious cheating to get an advantage (like last year's Wysocki/Nikko/McCray incident was). Yes, some will say it's 'cheating' because she's violating the rules and not self-calling, and I'd agree, but I don't think it's 'malicious'.

IMHO if Cat was called for these a couple of times, she'd be sure to clean it up (after making revenge calls). In fact, if someone brought it to her attention between tournaments ("hey Cat, those DGCR people are saying you're foot-faulting; might want to check that out!") she'd get correct on it.

As to making the calls on her? Who's going to bell that cat? (pun fully intended)

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:45 AM
Jolt Jolt is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,722
Niced 1,595 Times in 912 Posts
Default

I have never really looked for this before, but after that slowmo ( Jomez ? ) i started to look where she plants her foot. . and it is often way of. . .
And as you need to be behind your mini/disc NOT out to the side of your disc, she is often to far forward. . and even steps on the disc quite often.

I don´t think she is aware of this, or does it on purpose. . . but i think if she looks at the videos and becomes aware of it she can fix it.

But i do think the comentators should point it out on any player

Last edited by Jolt; 05-15-2019 at 09:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 05-15-2019, 10:23 AM
Jay Dub's Avatar
Jay Dub Jay Dub is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SW Ohio
Years Playing: 39.8
Courses Played: 95
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 4,988
Niced 1,081 Times in 409 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to Jay Dub
Default

During the live round when Cat got up to throw from the fairway me and others in the live chat called foot faults before she threw, each time we were correct.

That's how bad she's gotten with those fouls.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 05-15-2019, 02:06 PM
Jimb's Avatar
Jimb Jimb is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: WV near Cumberland, MD
Years Playing: 12.9
Courses Played: 107
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 3,787
Niced 436 Times in 195 Posts
Default

Rules guys.... what’s the new(ish) rule regarding stance location behind the disc? Isn’t it a rectangle or something now and not just immediately behind the center of the marker? (I haven’t watched the video/violations at all yet and just wondered. I am not making any sort of judgement about the calls at all. )

And wouldn’t self calling be very hard? I mean if you have a run up in the fairway, who is looking at their own feet?

Last edited by Jimb; 05-15-2019 at 02:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 05-15-2019, 02:08 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: spotsylvania, va
Years Playing: 24.7
Courses Played: 94
Posts: 6,818
Niced 2,344 Times in 954 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimb View Post
Rules guys.... what’s the new(ish) rule regarding stance location behind the disc? Isn’t it a rectangle or something now and not just immediately behind the center of the marker? (I haven’t watched the video/violations at all yet and just wondered. )
Rectangle roughly the size of piece of notebook paper.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 05-15-2019, 02:14 PM
Jolt Jolt is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,722
Niced 1,595 Times in 912 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimb View Post
Rules guys.... what’s the new(ish) rule regarding stance location behind the disc? Isn’t it a rectangle or something now and not just immediately behind the center of the marker? (I haven’t watched the video/violations at all yet and just wondered. I am not making any sort of judgement about the calls at all. )

And wouldn’t self calling be very hard? I mean if you have a run up in the fairway, who is looking at their own feet?
look at page 10 . . post #98 in this thread

20x30cm BEHIND the mini or disc

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
 

  #150  
Old 05-15-2019, 02:42 PM
Putt for D'oh's Avatar
Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Years Playing: 4.7
Courses Played: 24
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,182
Niced 525 Times in 300 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
So (and this is not excusing her, just observing) I suspect she's gotten into the habit of being to the right of the disc and sometimes steps too far. This appears to be sloppiness as opposed to malicious cheating to get an advantage (like last year's Wysocki/Nikko/McCray incident was). Yes, some will say it's 'cheating' because she's violating the rules and not self-calling, and I'd agree, but I don't think it's 'malicious'.
What the hell is a malicious foot fault?
I still disagree that Wysocki's was intentional. He abbreviated his last stride trying to hit the line mid throw. His last stride is naturally very long... which lead to all of those cart path foot faults. Nikko knew his line would be impossible to hit from the lie and watched and was right. Ricky was probably aware he probably foot-faulted but competitive moment and not wanting or trying to a LOT of doubt can creep into one's head and that small amount of uncertainty is enough to not want to self call.

It is tough and I think in general the sport can survive on self policing but at the highest level it will need officials on each hole or card. The specific issue with foot faults is they seem personal. OB calls and scorecard errors and a lot of other calls can be looked at as a lot more impartial and even summed up as "the disc landed here" where as a foot fault by nature seems more accusatory "YOU foot faulted".

I have a lot more experience at a variety of levels of many different sports. From player, captain, coach, dad, uncle, spectator, volunteer official and paid referee. Having any call that goes against a player be taken as a personal attack is pretty common in so many areas and it is a very difficult thing that some officials develop a very defensive attitude prior to making calls as a result.
I would say in my experiences, no everyone has the mindset to be a good official. Recognizing an infraction and calling it impartially in real time can be a lot harder than it seems it should be. Especially when as pointed out with some of these there is no malicious intent or maybe even the intent was obvious to play within the rules. Ive seen it a bit on vaguely defined OB areas. The amount of gymnastics a card will go through to try and make a throw in bounds can be a bit extreme, and sometimes when it is clearly OB there is can be an almost apologetic nature to the OB call.
As an official in some sports i know I'm bad at it. Why? Because I love watching the sport and become a spectator pretty quickly and real time calls are very difficult. I'm watching for an outcome, i'm watching to see if the disc hits the line I expect or amazed at the flight when a line I don't expect to be thrown is accomplished. staying in the mindset of a referee can be for many of us harder than it seems it should. The other is just flat out sympathy that yes there is not a lot of wiggle room for a call but sometimes it doesn't seem like a huge error and the punishment doesn't feel like it fits the crime... thats where the interpretation of intent comes in or if they "didn't miss the mark by that much" or tried to hit the mark... big gray area that changes from individual to individual observing and sometimes a stroke seems like a pretty weighty penalty for something that was unintentional and maybe only off by an inch.

Watching swimming I have realized I cannot be a judge. It pains me to watch kids get DQ'd, or worse whole relay teams get DQ'd for many very small infractions, some that area so minor they are hard to see and many don't actually effect the outcome of a race. There is an argument I get, and I understand just like foot faults as JayDub pointed out, it takes focus away from your shot (ie Ricky's concentrating on his unmakable line) and therefore it does create a bigger advantage even if it looks minor or inconsequential when there are others focusing very hard on hitting that lie or keeping their swim stroke legal. It is still, in the moment hard to remember that, letting go of even these small things is wholly unfair to those who work so hard to ensure they are getting it right and play 100% within the rules... and also it isn't personal its simply enforcing the rules of the game.

It would be a big culture shift to get the whole sport up to speed.

Last edited by Putt for D'oh; 05-15-2019 at 02:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DGPT: 2019 Idlewild Open brutalbrutus Tournaments & Leagues 255 07-31-2019 09:58 PM
PDGA NT: 2019 Dynamic Discs Glass Blown Open 24-Apr to 27-Apr-2019 brutalbrutus Tournaments & Leagues 299 05-02-2019 07:34 PM
DGPT: 2019 Waco Annual Charity Open presented by Dynamic Discs brutalbrutus Tournaments & Leagues 285 03-28-2019 08:09 PM
DGPT: 2019 Memorial Championship brutalbrutus Tournaments & Leagues 407 03-18-2019 11:23 AM
DGPT San Francisco Open brutalbrutus Tournaments & Leagues 245 06-08-2018 01:39 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.