#151  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:47 AM
ballgolfconvert ballgolfconvert is offline
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Originally Posted by runningDoc View Post
ball golf actually has had problems with it being too hard/expensive/exclusive for about a decade. they've even gone to creating newer ways to play it with soccer golf, huge holes, etc to make it more popular in order to save a lot of dying/out of business courses.



its telling when you have Jack Nickalus pandering to have anyway to keep ball golf alive, even if that means turning his designed courses into multipurpose soccer golf and mega sized golf hole courses.

sure there was the boom of the 90's when tiger woods created a huge groundswell and ton of newer players/courses, but then that waned when normal families couldn't afford to play golf anymore.
A course installed the soccer format near me and it was a huge failure. Not only did they not get many soccer players, they also lost golfers, as they shut down tee times to make room for the soccer players, who never showed up in mass. I do agree with putting these on disc golf courses. Instead of flags they could put tone p[oles in the center allowing both sports to share the same hole/pole.
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  #152  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ballgolfconvert View Post
A course installed the soccer format near me and it was a huge failure. Not only did they not get many soccer players, they also lost golfers, as they shut down tee times to make room for the soccer players, who never showed up in mass. I do agree with putting these on disc golf courses. Instead of flags they could put tone p[oles in the center allowing both sports to share the same hole/pole.
It would be worse on a disc golf course. With the soccer ball rolling on uneven, non manicured greens there's no way any type of consistent putting could happen.

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  #153  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:53 AM
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Baskets used to have only 1 set of chains, and no sliding links. When baskets started coming out with an additional inner set of chains, baskets with a single set of chains were deemed inferior.

Seems we can't decide whether we need baskets that catch better, or baskets that require more skill in putting.

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  #154  
Old 05-19-2020, 01:46 PM
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Golden Tuna Golden Tuna is offline
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Originally Posted by dreadlock86 View Post
there is not one reasonable argument posted here so far against it
I have not had time to read every reply between yours and mine, but here are the challenges from my perspective:

1. Uniformity: Not all baskets are the same, so the "cinching" device would not be standard either.

2. Quality control: With the variety of baskets and individuals who would install the device, I believe this would introduce different inconsistencies. So, this isn't really a "gain".

3. Round Ratings: How would these new baskets impact player round ratings? Would FPO card (who play the same course) play the standard basket, or the modified version? Would the Club event held a month earlier have the same ratings for a round of 54 on two "different" baskets?

4. Impact on Excitement: The side effect of smaller baskets is more players missing more putts, which leads to more tip-ins. Who wants to watch that?

5. Collateral Damage: How can one compare themselves to the pros if they never have an opportunity to compete on the same level (baskets)? There are already people "bagging" in AM who could play pro. A smaller basket would result in a smaller pro field, which impacts both the AMs and the payout for Pros.

What about a substitute "marksman" basket?
1. Sleeve ID: The various stops on tour have multiple basket types, most of which with unique inner diameter of sleeve which may or may not receive the "Tour" marksman basket.

2. Temp option: I doubt the touring pros want to play on anything but a top-of-the-line permanent basket.

Alternative Options
1. Big tour events are invitation only
2. Utilize more of a tournament bracket style, like tennis to determine individual matchups
3. Standardize divisions based on rating
Trophy only: <940 -> There could be M & W T2, T3, T4 to separate these Ams.
Voucher: 941-999
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  #155  
Old 05-19-2020, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ohtobediscing View Post
#1. It shouldn't be too close to call. If there's any doubt at all, you get a penalty stroke.
#2. How long before run-up jump putts become the norm?
#1. I go the other way. Benefit of the doubt to the player, because if it's that close, they're not getting any advantage.

#2. Running jump putts will never be a thing. That's a faulty association and a huge leap...from a small jump.
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  #156  
Old 05-19-2020, 03:06 PM
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esdubya esdubya is offline
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A lot of people missing the point, for those seemingly in the minority who are (smartly) engaging in a conversation about tweaks we can do for PRO TOUR ONLY. In other words: DGPT, NT and Majors. Along with smaller (but catches at least as good for putts in the strike zone) baskets..

I've also heard MPO players advocate for a speed limit on discs, speed 10 or 11 being the max. The argument for this is that it will force the (PRO TOUR ONLY) players to shape more shots (throw less hyzers) resulting in more compelling footage. I'm sure this calls for its own thread if it doesn't already exist.

Further, I'd add that the disc colors should be restricted (PRO TOUR ONLY) so that the shots show up well on camera.

It's good to think about these things and talk about them rationally, with an acknowledgement of the importance of disc golf media.

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  #157  
Old 05-19-2020, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by esdubya View Post
A lot of people missing the point, for those seemingly in the minority who are (smartly) engaging in a conversation about tweaks we can do for PRO TOUR ONLY. In other words: DGPT, NT and Majors. Along with smaller (but catches at least as good for putts in the strike zone) baskets..

I've also heard MPO players advocate for a speed limit on discs, speed 10 or 11 being the max. The argument for this is that it will force the (PRO TOUR ONLY) players to shape more shots (throw less hyzers) resulting in more compelling footage. I'm sure this calls for its own thread if it doesn't already exist.

Further, I'd add that the disc colors should be restricted (PRO TOUR ONLY) so that the shots show up well on camera.

It's good to think about these things and talk about them rationally, with an acknowledgement of the importance of disc golf media.
I honestly have a hard time getting board with anything that adds this much work to a TD and staff of a major, NT or DGPT event. The work is already monumental...ask a certain SE Michigan TD. I think the payoff is tiny.

I think pro disc golf is fairly watchable....for disc golfers. I am not one who believes you will draw spectators that don't play, it is just not that interesting. I am pretty sure, McBeth's Toboggan -18, is one of the more viewed YouTube clips, why would anyone mess with that....isn't that the goal? Would most of those views still be there for a -16 round? Keep moving the pro game further from mine and I could lose interest.

I think effort would be better served in hustling for more sponsors, putting on VERY WELL RUN events and having courses in top notch shape for these events.

Just this guys opinion.

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  #158  
Old 05-19-2020, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Innova63 View Post
I have often thought that DG was lacking in the finesse or soft touch shots.

I realize some people don't want to be like ball golf. But since we share the name, so similarities will always be there.

Firing putts at the chains and expecting the disc to stick isn't golf like.

What I think the target should be like is similar to the original single chain Mach I,
Maybe a few more chains to narrow the gaps. The basket should be deeper though, maybe like most of the baskets are now and maybe angled to prevent many (not all) bounce outs.

If memory serves me, Ed designed the baskets to simulate playing catch with a friend (no, not like guts). Putting should be with more finesse (like a free throw in basketball) not target practice (archery or target shooting). The chains should deflect the disc to the basket.

If you putt too hard, it is easier to go through the chains. A little softer (more finesse) and the disc deflects in the basket.

Not a smaller catching device, but I think it would be as exciting with less chains.
I putt pretty hard, as do most of my friends, and play catch with our putting stroke to warm up all the time. Few putting styles feel unreasonable for a game of catch. If that bit about Steady Ed is true, I agree with him.

Soft finesse putts as well as authoritative ones should stick, and both do on our championship level targets (granted those soft putts only have a tiny target area on the Mach X: super low and center.)

We still see players modify their putt with some finesse on death putts. I know I do. The tour has plenty of drop offs and close OB to the basket, so again, the solution is difficult greens, not flukey baskets.
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  #159  
Old 05-19-2020, 04:02 PM
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rocthecourse rocthecourse is offline
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Originally Posted by nothinbuttree View Post
What would everyone think about EVERY basket being elevated nationwide going forward? Or EVERY basket in EVERY pro tournament, at least A tiers? I think the premise is very similar.
There might be an argument to be made for elevating every basket. If you raised every basket by 2 feet that might be enough to make putting a little harder, it would at least punish the misses a little more.

It would be interesting to see some numbers on how basket height affects putting and scoring.
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  #160  
Old 05-19-2020, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
I think effort would be better served in hustling for more sponsors, putting on VERY WELL RUN events and having courses in top notch shape for these events.
I hit the nice button really hard for this line.


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