#161  
Old 05-19-2020, 04:40 PM
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Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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The underlying fallacy is a given activity that's compelling to play will also be sufficiently compelling to watch or vice versa. Disc golf, essentially played under the same rules and using the same equipment at all levels, does not equally meet both goals. Most people would rather play than watch, especially since it's so accessible and affordable. Seems like there are two directions for the game/sport to go, downscaling towards pickleball, bowling and miniature golf to grow the player base even faster, or moving the top end towards American Ninja and other extreme sports formats that are more compelling to watch. Organizers can also build in both directions.
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  #162  
Old 05-19-2020, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by esdubya View Post

It's good to think about these things and talk about them rationally, with an acknowledgement of the importance of disc golf media.
That would start with stating the benefits of this change, for the players, viewers, or disc golf media. How much would narrower baskets reduce putting percentages, and how exactly would that benefit any or all of these groups?

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  #163  
Old 05-19-2020, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by esdubya View Post
Further, I'd add that the disc colors should be restricted (PRO TOUR ONLY) so that the shots show up well on camera.
This is a good idea, poor visibility of discs does hamper DG media and the potential for it to be very visible is one of the comparative advantages we have compared to Golf. The only issue might be that the disc colour might need to be different for each type of course. Darker coloured discs might not show up well against a wall of trees as a backdrop, but undoubtedly show up better against the sky.

Players who are throwing decades old discs might not be happy about this sort of change though.
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  #164  
Old 05-19-2020, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay Dub View Post
It would be worse on a disc golf course. With the soccer ball rolling on uneven, non manicured greens there's no way any type of consistent putting could happen.
yep this. I am working on a course on a reclaimed golf course currently and the owner was interested in footgolf as well. We decided the extra level of manicuring required was not worth it.

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  #165  
Old 05-19-2020, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugular View Post
This is a good idea, poor visibility of discs does hamper DG media and the potential for it to be very visible is one of the comparative advantages we have compared to Golf. The only issue might be that the disc colour might need to be different for each type of course. Darker coloured discs might not show up well against a wall of trees as a backdrop, but undoubtedly show up better against the sky.

Players who are throwing decades old discs might not be happy about this sort of change though.
In theory I agree, but this would be hard to pull off. Some courses are a mix of open and wooded so some discs would be visible in the woods and not the open and vice versa. You can only carry so many. The good media companies, which is pretty much all of them now, tend to do a good job at locating discs on catch cam so you almost always see where it lands.

I agree too about the players that have hard to see discs. I don't think Innova would like this approach for the Sexton Firebird, probably their best selling tour series disc. They're basically sky blue. But courses like the Beast, lake Eureka, etc. have a pretty healthy mix of open and wooded. Hard to implement I would think.

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  #166  
Old 05-20-2020, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by F. Howl View Post
#1. I go the other way. Benefit of the doubt to the player, because if it's that close, they're not getting any advantage.

#2. Running jump putts will never be a thing. That's a faulty association and a huge leap...from a small jump.
Other than choice of discs (and physical ability), no one deserves any advantage due to a technicality. Not that I'm stumping for instant replay---pros (and those who think they are) already play slow enough.

Right---one small step for a noodle arm, one giant leap for a pro. I think running jump putts would be kind of entertaining ---and just imagine the product tie-ins for chiropractors.
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  #167  
Old 05-20-2020, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfhaley View Post
In theory I agree, but this would be hard to pull off. Some courses are a mix of open and wooded so some discs would be visible in the woods and not the open and vice versa. You can only carry so many. The good media companies, which is pretty much all of them now, tend to do a good job at locating discs on catch cam so you almost always see where it lands.

I agree too about the players that have hard to see discs. I don't think Innova would like this approach for the Sexton Firebird, probably their best selling tour series disc. They're basically sky blue. But courses like the Beast, lake Eureka, etc. have a pretty healthy mix of open and wooded. Hard to implement I would think.
Perhaps just restricting discs that are almost impossible to see in some situations, totally translucent discs, green discs and light blue discs. Perhaps just offer media companies the opportunity to say which discs are more or less visible. No need for a rule perhaps, just encouragement. Media companies are more likely to replay shots where the disc flight is easy to see = more exposure for players who throw visible discs.

It would be good if someone who spends hours editing DG footage could chime in if disc colour really does make any discernable difference to visibility. I THINK it does, but it may just be that it seems intuitive that it would.

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  #168  
Old 05-20-2020, 12:29 PM
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https://youtu.be/S0EnVsM-Cto

I dont know how to imbed. But here is the 2018 marksman challenge and Eric Oakley and Ricky Wysocki are there.

Ricky makes a 70-80ft on the first hole, no layups on run-able putts the whole round for rick and eric.
The local "pros" laid up alot. Which i expected before watching.
This is how you showcase good putting!
Rick and Eric had bad tee shots all day and both saved their rounds because of putting.

The course itself was already roll-away city without adding the Marksman. But there are alot of under 300ft holes and adding a marksman really made the course play more difficult. (it was rainy and cold as well)

We still had long putts being ran, long putts being made, death putts being made, high putts that hit center catching.
Most enjoyably, Ricky missed a few short putts, which were bad putts and probably would have caught with AM baksets (my new name for our current basket )

Please tell me why this style of tournament cant work? At least for the pro tour or just the majors.

The Marksman isnt a perfect basket but it catches great and with some tweaking we could easily have a smaller basket that catches even better.
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  #169  
Old 05-20-2020, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Emoney View Post
Please tell me why this style of tournament cant work? At least for the pro tour or just the majors.
Oh, it can work.

Please tell me why it's better, what benefits are gained for the players or spectators, that justify the effort.

And, since it's been done and demonstrated, why didn't it catch fire and spread to other events? If it's so much better, why didn't that event, or this video, inspire others to demand more bullseye tournaments?

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  #170  
Old 05-20-2020, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Oh, it can work.

Please tell me why it's better, what benefits are gained for the players or spectators, that justify the effort.

And, since it's been done and demonstrated, why didn't it catch fire and spread to other events? If it's so much better, why didn't that event, or this video, inspire others to demand more bullseye tournaments?
Its only better for the Pros and unfortunately we have like 10 pros that can make a living disc golfing. This sport is still AM driven and they dont want it to be more difficult(obviously, by the statements in this thread).
I dont think it has caught on because each course would need 18 new baskets and we only currently have "practice" baskets that are bullseye style.

This is a Future move that we can start talking about and experimenting with now.

Ams want to stay ams, pros want to be great. Once the tour can get enough funding without AMs, this i a great way to raise the ceiling of the difficulty of disc golf.

To completely dismiss the idea of small baskets feels disingenuous. No reason not to have this discussion, it has plenty of merit

Last edited by Emoney; 05-20-2020 at 12:49 PM.
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