#11  
Old 05-25-2020, 04:35 PM
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Since we are still using the term hole for disc golf course, I think we should just putt at a big hole in the ground.
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2020, 04:50 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscJunkie View Post
I want to see the Pros defeat a course that defeated me.
Closer to a thing of the past with every year...
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  #13  
Old 05-25-2020, 05:01 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscJunkie View Post
I wouldn't like to see anything "artificial" or gimmicky that would not be available at a local course.
Sticks/Poles or fake boulders, these are some things that I could duplicate or even encounter naturally at my local course.

Obstructions in/on the basket seem like an artificial and unsustainable gimmick.
I want to see the Pros defeat a course that defeated me.
I want to see the Pros make shots I can pull off maybe 1 time in 100.

I don't want to see the Pros doinking off some artificial basket obstruction.

Why is this even a discussion??

Did someone say there's a problem??

Better course design is indeed the answer.
Moving toward Putt-Putt windmills, and obstructions on the basket is just 100% gimmicky.

We don't have to have scores like ball golf and we don't need Putt-Putt gimmicks to get there.

Rant over.
No insult intended to those who disagree with me.
I just don't see the point...
Fair enough. I should have prefaced my post by "Should we decide we want to reduce putting percentages....

I don't think we need to. But for the sake of discussion, if we did, how best to do it?

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Old 05-25-2020, 05:39 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Design a bar that can be temporarily but solidly attached per the diagram to most Championship target models (some manufacturers likely design their own). TDs/course designers can decide whether the basket on each hole should have from 0 to 3 bars attached for a pro event. Maybe initially limit the total number of bars that can be added on an 18-hole course to say 18 so designers judiciously select the baskets where it should make putting more interesting.

The bar(s) will require players to sometimes skillfully hyzer or anhyzer their putt on the current regulation baskets. This is a way to simply and inexpensively add a consistent challenge on greens lacking any obstacles such as most temp courses on ball golf courses. Pros will be able see the bar location(s) in advance to determine the better locations to land on their upshots. The bars both increase the skill factor for both putts and upshots. Spectators will get to observe more curving putt attempts which are more interesting visually.
I have favored this idea for some time; just haven't gotten around to building a proto. If done well, it could even have a way to add an additional sponsor to pro tours. Not only would it possibly add the excitement and an additional skill of having to hyzer and anyhyzer putts more often. It would put a bigger premium on quality approaches -- more than just "getting to the circle," you'd have to get to the correct side of the circle for an easier putt. My idea would leave one side (or 2/3 however you say it) open with maybe two bars very tight on the other side. I just think that would add another element (that occurs naturally on some holes -- just adding it to all holes for pros) of skill to the sport. You want the clear open putt, well there's one available on every hole. You couldn't just throw it anywhere inside C1 to get the easy putt.
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  #15  
Old 05-25-2020, 05:43 PM
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I don't buy that the basket is inherently primitive in the same way that Naismith's peach basket was primitive.
You might be able to make that argument with the Tone Pole or the cone and other ad hoc early designs.
Now with MachX's and Pro28'd and Chainstar Pros, we have seen an ongoing evolution of the basket design, but no revolution such as the backboard or nets, etc.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the basket, unless you want to be like ball golf, in which case it is, in comparison, much easier.

However, I believe that we are moving past our ball golf origins in the same way that Baseball has gotten past "Rounders" and Cricket and American Football has gotten past Rugby. I could go on, but hopefully you get the point.
We need better courses, not worse baskets.
Lets figure out score separation AND veiwability.

Maybe I'm the exception.
I LOVE seeing a Pro run it from 60ft and ring it up!!
I don't want to see the miss go into a pond/OB/down the hill, but appreciate the risk/reward calculation that prompted the attempt.

Again, I'm missing the problem we're trying to solve.
Not every course can be Pro Par, but do they all need to be?
Let's work to make the courses tougher and the designs better, but don't take the cheap, easy and regressionary path by messing with the basket.

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  #16  
Old 05-25-2020, 07:20 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
...
The original peach basket and eventually hoop didn't have a backboard.
...
Well, actually, since the basket was nailed to the bottom railing of the balcony, it sort of did have a backboard. Perhaps the solid smooth backboard which reduced the flukiness was a welcome change.

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An illustration of a basketball game that accompanied Nasmith's article from The Triangle in 1892 listing his 13 rules.
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  #17  
Old 05-26-2020, 12:29 AM
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I have always advocated more technical green design as the best fix for putting being "too easy" on the elite pro level.

Nearby hazard/OB is an easy way to add risk and reward factor to a putt. Or -- if available -- sudden and punishing elevation change. But with an unobstructed look within 30' the best players don't even blink. Heck, 40' or even 50' for some of those guys.

So obstructions have to come into the conversation. And I think there are some compelling examples of this done with natural features.

There's a hole at the Memorial, back 9 of Fountain, that has the basket sandwiched between two tightly spaced tree trucks. If your drive is short or long then your line is blocked, left or right and you have an open look. So those 2 obstacles within 5' of the pin impact the strategy of every throw. Including the tee shot.

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Old 05-26-2020, 02:12 AM
disco40 disco40 is offline
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I don't get the feeling from watching disc golf that putting fails to provide excitement or scoring separation. Is there a statistical case to be made here? What's the problem in the first place? I'm not sure I'd really enjoy watching pros missing 20 footers due to some tricked up basket. That means they make fewer big exciting putts, too, because those get harder with gimmicks. There are exceptions to that, and it's nice when those gimmicks are the exception.

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Last edited by disco40; 05-26-2020 at 02:14 AM.
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  #19  
Old 05-26-2020, 03:05 AM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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My thought is simple, find tougher courses they are out in less populated areas often or state parks, The Pro Tour hinders its self by needing to have 100% live feed at the course using ether internet or using the Cell towers to connect from computers to the internet. The National Tour does not need this as much as they do not do a live feed for the tournaments. They make Satellite internet signal, this helps get the view almost out to people in real time I mean other sports have the ability to show on the TV via Satellite TV and people in campers have Satellite TV so...yeah all they need is a Signal via a Satellite internet.
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  #20  
Old 05-26-2020, 03:14 AM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disco40 View Post
I don't get the feeling from watching disc golf that putting fails to provide excitement or scoring separation. Is there a statistical case to be made here? What's the problem in the first place? I'm not sure I'd really enjoy watching pros missing 20 footers due to some tricked up basket. That means they make fewer big exciting putts, too, because those get harder with gimmicks. There are exceptions to that, and it's nice when those gimmicks are the exception.
I am more tired of Pro Tour playing in areas with courses or not that allow for longer putt to be made 90% of the time not just by top card but card down as well. They get to slam putt due to the type of baskets used, I am fearing that we will see baskets with so many chains one has to slam putt for the disc to go in at all, the Prodigy T1 basket? Not sure the name but the company has a basket not used as much of the two models of top Championship level basket that has the sideways chains on both the inner and outer set that if new or rusty chains, the baskets need to be drive putted into with the persons putting putter provided it is not a lid.
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