#161  
Old 09-17-2020, 07:29 PM
scooby snack scooby snack is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Not sure what you are saying but however forward hip rotation starts, it begins just before front foot plant. If one waited until all the weight was on the front foot before hip rotation started they wouldn't be able to rotate.
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  #162  
Old 09-17-2020, 08:22 PM
RowingBoats RowingBoats is offline
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Not sure what you are saying but however forward hip rotation starts, it begins just before front foot plant. If one waited until all the weight was on the front foot before hip rotation started they wouldn't be able to rotate.
This is exactly why people seem to have to 'feel' this concept I think. If you have not felt it you can have a very wrong idea watching and emulating pros -- I know this because this is exactly what happened to me.

I 100% understand why people have said "intend" in this thread several times.

Yes, there may be 'rotation' occurring before your weight is shifted into the brace, but this is not the 'intentional' rotation that really puts the acceleration on. The timing difference is pretty absurdly small, but the feel is much different. If your mental model of the throw is intentionally rotating at the point you describe, just ditch that as an experiment and try a new model.
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:33 PM
RocHucker RocHucker is online now
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Originally Posted by RowingBoats View Post
This is exactly why people seem to have to 'feel' this concept I think. If you have not felt it you can have a very wrong idea watching and emulating pros -- I know this because this is exactly what happened to me.
...If your mental model of the throw is intentionally rotating at the point you describe, just ditch that as an experiment and try a new model.
Any mental images that you'd suggest for those who haven't "felt it" yet? Throw everything you can think of at the wall and see if anything sticks. I know there's lots of good advice on these forums, but none of it has clicked for me when it comes to this bracing stuff. Any time I try to put weight into a closed front foot, I feel like i can't rotate without injuring my front knee, and i can't get power from it
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  #164  
Old 09-17-2020, 08:44 PM
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JuanA JuanA is offline
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Any mental images that you'd suggest for those who haven't "felt it" yet? Throw everything you can think of at the wall and see if anything sticks. I know there's lots of good advice on these forums, but none of it has clicked for me when it comes to this bracing stuff. Any time I try to put weight into a closed front foot, I feel like i can't rotate without injuring my front knee, and i can't get power from it
This helped me. Now I find myself doing it with every sliding door I see.



*EDIT* I should have been clearer...it helped me because I would rotate on my right heel as I was pulling through.


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  #165  
Old 09-17-2020, 09:30 PM
scooby snack scooby snack is offline
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Question about the brace:
When the brace leg juices the throw, is it a "bump" or a press and hold?
In other words, imagine that there's a pressure sensor under my brace foot. Should the pressure spike as I shift weight to it and then decrease sharply before the upper body comes through the throw, or does the pressure rise as I settle onto the front foot and stay high until I've completed my follow through? Or something else?

When I think about whipping my tennis forehand, the pressure is more of a bump in my lead foot. On my disc golf backhand, should I be going for the same bump and whip feeling as the tennis forehand, but the feeling is that I'm swinging lefty and hitting a ball that's slightly behind me (due to use of lead shoulder instead of trailing shoulder)? I know that the throw would probably correlate better to my tennis backhand, but I've never felt the ground up power quite as well on my tennis backhand.

I don’t play tennis so I can’t compare bracing for a tennis swing to a dg swing but I’ll try to explain it.

I think the best way to learn it, is to take a stack of discs to an open field and throw from a standstill. You want to shift your weight from the back leg to the front, then brace against this shift.

When I was learning this, it clicked for me when I started emulating the pros and driving my back knee forward. That move helped me to really start feeling the brace.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:31 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by RowingBoats View Post
This is exactly why people seem to have to 'feel' this concept I think. If you have not felt it you can have a very wrong idea watching and emulating pros -- I know this because this is exactly what happened to me.

I 100% understand why people have said "intend" in this thread several times.

Yes, there may be 'rotation' occurring before your weight is shifted into the brace, but this is not the 'intentional' rotation that really puts the acceleration on. The timing difference is pretty absurdly small, but the feel is much different. If your mental model of the throw is intentionally rotating at the point you describe, just ditch that as an experiment and try a new model.
We could be speaking of the same thing, just different ways of conceptualization. One doesn't really feel their hip turning from the rear leg into front foot plant. But it really is happening. And, again, we don't feel it so much, but there is a powerful kinetic chain that starts on that initial slight turn by the rear hip as it starts the rotation into and through foot plant. As the weight totally shifts and you can feel the pressure on the foot bracing, the torso also starts to unwind very powerfully. The hips are ahead of the torso in rotation just as the torso is ahead of the shoulders in rotation and lastly the arm gets whipped through like a bull whip ejecting the disc. It's that sequence of the rotation which starts in the rear leg and hip that is the engine so to speak, for the arm and disc to accelerate so forcefully.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:40 PM
RowingBoats RowingBoats is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
We could be speaking of the same thing, just different ways of conceptualization. One doesn't really feel their hip turning from the rear leg into front foot plant. But it really is happening. And, again, we don't feel it so much, but there is a powerful kinetic chain that starts on that initial slight turn by the rear hip as it starts the rotation into and through foot plant. As the weight totally shifts and you can feel the pressure on the foot bracing, the torso also starts to unwind very powerfully. The hips are ahead of the torso in rotation just as the torso is ahead of the shoulders in rotation and lastly the arm gets whipped through like a bull whip ejecting the disc. It's that sequence of the rotation which starts in the rear leg and hip that is the engine so to speak, for the arm and disc to accelerate so forcefully.
That is a way to throw a disc fairly far, I don't deny that. Again I am a layman, but did take this out to the field today to apply it to throwing discs. There is a big difference in how it feels, one of them seems to be:

If you open early, you are starting your acceleration before it truly matters, which idealy is in the power pocket or MUCH closer to it. You are pulling your arm from the backswing WAY to fast from the start doing it this way, there is no room or stored leverage for acceleration at the end. If you delay the acceleration until the brace, and have pulled the disc into the pocket, THEN explode, the acceleration makes a huge difference. It is also much easier to control and think about the movement as a whole, even on day one for me.
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  #168  
Old 09-17-2020, 09:49 PM
RowingBoats RowingBoats is offline
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Originally Posted by RocHucker View Post
Any mental images that you'd suggest for those who haven't "felt it" yet? Throw everything you can think of at the wall and see if anything sticks. I know there's lots of good advice on these forums, but none of it has clicked for me when it comes to this bracing stuff. Any time I try to put weight into a closed front foot, I feel like i can't rotate without injuring my front knee, and i can't get power from it
I will come back to this after I spend some real time in the field. Today, the most major thing internally that changed was how the overall rhythm is 'counted' in my head. Without the brace and actual transfer of balance to the front, my throws felt like they went full speed from the reachback position. Now there is this boooooooom-boooom-boom acceleration throughout the movement.

That probably isn't helpful and it will take me some time to digest this and have a more comfortable time executing it. Once I do, I might have more to say!

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  #169  
Old 09-17-2020, 10:33 PM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by RowingBoats View Post
That is a way to throw a disc fairly far, I don't deny that. Again I am a layman, but did take this out to the field today to apply it to throwing discs. There is a big difference in how it feels, one of them seems to be:

If you open early, you are starting your acceleration before it truly matters, which idealy is in the power pocket or MUCH closer to it. You are pulling your arm from the backswing WAY to fast from the start doing it this way, there is no room or stored leverage for acceleration at the end. If you delay the acceleration until the brace, and have pulled the disc into the pocket, THEN explode, the acceleration makes a huge difference. It is also much easier to control and think about the movement as a whole, even on day one for me.
Yes, the upper body needs to wait for as long as possible. The lower half though needs to start unwinding powerfully before that acceleration of the arm out of the power pocket.

Again, we may be feeling and doung the same thing, just explaining it differently.
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  #170  
Old 09-18-2020, 12:39 AM
RandyC RandyC is online now
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
First, the importance of hip power vs. Arm power. I will post another on my perception of the weight transfer point and the relationship of the hip, torso and shoulders.

https://youtu.be/poV82_XKzAQ
So in your example you are backwards and as you pull your arm in your lead shoulder pops up to your ear and your whole body crashes into your front hip/lead leg. Your body gets stuck as you are in the pocket and has nowhere else to go except around your lead leg. If you were to do HUBs landmower drill, you would stand in the way of its trajectory and run over your own leg.

Other way to think about is that if you were in the water. You would want to create linear energy and send the water past you targetward not spinning it or pulling it around you.

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