#171  
Old 09-18-2020, 08:10 AM
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Discette Discette is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
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Not sure what you are saying but however forward hip rotation starts, it begins just before front foot plant. If one waited until all the weight was on the front foot before hip rotation started they wouldn't be able to rotate.

Have you ever watched a "crush the can" video? It is difficult to crush the can if you open your hips before you plant or brace your weight. There needs to be a slight offset of the front foot. If you actually watch the crush the can video, all of this is explained and demonstrated without having to type out a thousand words.


In this Crush the Can Reboot video, it clearly states on the screen at 1:22 not to rotate hips before crushing the can. This means, don't rotate hips until the front foot, knee and leg are braced. You don't turn the hips and then crush the can, that might not even be possible.

Watch the video and note that the pros plant diagonally from back foot.


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  #172  
Old 09-18-2020, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Discette View Post
Have you ever watched a "crush the can" video? It is difficult to crush the can if you open your hips before you plant or brace your weight. There needs to be a slight offset of the front foot. If you actually watch the crush the can video, all of this is explained and demonstrated without having to type out a thousand words.


In this Crush the Can Reboot video, it clearly states on the screen at 1:22 not to rotate hips before crushing the can. This means, don't rotate hips until the front foot, knee and leg are braced. You don't turn the hips and then crush the can, that might not even be possible.

Watch the video and note that the pros plant diagonally from back foot.


love how I pick up little nuggets every time I watch these videos. He was discussing the alignment of your head and said keep your chin in line with your heel. I had missed that before, but just playing around with that idea, it’s a really easy way to feel that dynamic balance and alignment you need as you come into the brace.

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  #173  
Old 09-18-2020, 09:16 AM
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azplaya25 azplaya25 is offline
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Also, wish the OP was receptive to advice, but for anyone else reading this thread - probably the biggest form breakthrough I’ve had in the past month was when I stopped trying to rotate my hips. If you just keep your stance closed and make a balanced, linear move, rotation just happens. You don’t have to think about it, it’s just the way your body works.

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  #174  
Old 09-18-2020, 09:42 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by Discette View Post
Have you ever watched a "crush the can" video? It is difficult to crush the can if you open your hips before you plant or brace your weight. There needs to be a slight offset of the front foot. If you actually watch the crush the can video, all of this is explained and demonstrated without having to type out a thousand words.


In this Crush the Can Reboot video, it clearly states on the screen at 1:22 not to rotate hips before crushing the can. This means, don't rotate hips until the front foot, knee and leg are braced. You don't turn the hips and then crush the can, that might not even be possible.

Watch the video and note that the pros plant diagonally from back foot.


The point I keep trying to make, and you can actually see it in the video with the pros at the end is that just before that rear heal crushes downwards and the weight shifts, watch what is happening to the rear foot and leg- they start turning inwards. The only way they can turn inwards is if the rear hip begins rotating. Thus, hip rotation is initiated by the rear leg just before weight shift. It isn't the other way where weight shift occurs (after the can is crushed) and then the hips begin to rotate. Initial rotation begins just before that monent. If you were to place a weight scale under where the front foot lands showing pressure created by the brace (true maximum weight shift) and freeze it at exactly that moment, the hips will have already rotated quite a bit. I keep saying this and it's falling on deaf ears but without the rear leg initiating some rotation to begin with, the lateral momentum has no ability to create the rotation on its own. Thus, it is not possible to create rotation if ones weight has fully shifted to the brace before rotation starts. There must be a transition phase between the shift weight where the rotation is initiated by the rear leg just before front leg contact and brace. The brace allows the rotation to be more snappy or pivot on a tighter radius.
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  #175  
Old 09-18-2020, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by azplaya25 View Post
love how I pick up little nuggets every time I watch these videos. He was discussing the alignment of your head and said keep your chin in line with your heel. I had missed that before, but just playing around with that idea, it’s a really easy way to feel that dynamic balance and alignment you need as you come into the brace.
This is how I feel also. I keep watching the same videos over and over and they keep making more and more sense in more and more ways. I think a big reason people get stuck, which has also been discussed, is that you really do have to 'open your mind'. Not in any mystical way, but in a very practical way. Allow the thought:

"I am likely doing this action radically incorrectly, and always will be."

This will at least give you the right paradigm for actual, conceptual manipulation of what you are even trying to do with these movements.
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  #176  
Old 09-18-2020, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by azplaya25 View Post
Also, wish the OP was receptive to advice, but for anyone else reading this thread - probably the biggest form breakthrough I’ve had in the past month was when I stopped trying to rotate my hips. If you just keep your stance closed and make a balanced, linear move, rotation just happens. You don’t have to think about it, it’s just the way your body works.
True. What I have found though is that when one really feels it they will feel the sequencing of the torque of their hips turn, then their torso and then that twisting force propelling the disc. If one isn't feeling that, they are using too much arm.
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  #177  
Old 09-18-2020, 09:50 AM
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So in your example you are backwards and as you pull your arm in your lead shoulder pops up to your ear and your whole body crashes into your front hip/lead leg. Your body gets stuck as you are in the pocket and has nowhere else to go except around your lead leg. If you were to do HUBs landmower drill, you would stand in the way of its trajectory and run over your own leg.

Other way to think about is that if you were in the water. You would want to create linear energy and send the water past you targetward not spinning it or pulling it around you.
I obviously need to redo the video and do it with a disc as with a disc it looks totally different.
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  #178  
Old 09-18-2020, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
The brace allows the rotation to be more snappy or pivot on a tighter radius.
If this were the case, you would see a constant rotation of the foot in well performed drives. This is subtle and honestly very hard to see without looking specifically at it but try it. Watch, over and over, frame by frame the brace foot and disc release. Without fail, on drives, you are going to see the release and follow-through initiate the heel rotation.

You cannot brace against rotational torque in a meaningful way. Try it. Stand up and don't allow any lateral movement at all with your weight. Spin and brace that torque. Then notice that when you try to force the brace feeling you are introducing lateral movement. Try to make that your primary intended direction of movement and your brace will get very easy to feel.
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  #179  
Old 09-18-2020, 10:07 AM
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You cannot brace against rotational torque in a meaningful way. Try it. Stand up and don't allow any lateral movement at all with your weight. Spin and brace that torque. Then notice that when you try to force the brace feeling you are introducing lateral movement. Try to make that your primary intended direction of movement and your brace will get very easy to feel.
Exactly right. If you just perform a move that the human brain has been wired to perform for millions of years, your body will instinctively put you in the most efficient powerful positions. Shawn Clement talks about this in his video. Just stand there and pretend that you are throwing a spear at something. What does your body want to do? It wants to make a linear move, brace, then come through with the throw. If you pretend to throw a spear and your first move is to rotate your hips, it feels really awkward.

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  #180  
Old 09-18-2020, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by azplaya25 View Post
Exactly right. If you just perform a move that the human brain has been wired to perform for millions of years, your body will instinctively put you in the most efficient powerful positions. Shawn Clement talks about this in his video. Just stand there and pretend that you are throwing a spear at something. What does your body want to do? It wants to make a linear move, brace, then come through with the throw. If you pretend to throw a spear and your first move is to rotate your hips, it feels really awkward.
I completely agree and this is part of what baffles me. If I do pick up a literal spear I would do that instinctively. What is it about a disc that made me have to claw my way out of strong-arming it as my first instinct? Then my second instinct was to rotate early to whip my arm out...then I finally remembered "Oh ya, I already know how to throw an object."

I think perhaps there is a subconscious bias due to the light-weight of the disc, and the fact that it is a circular rotating object itself. A bias that makes our first instinct rotational in our intentions. Weird stuff.

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