#181  
Old 09-18-2020, 10:18 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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If this were the case, you would see a constant rotation of the foot in well performed drives. This is subtle and honestly very hard to see without looking specifically at it but try it. Watch, over and over, frame by frame the brace foot and disc release. Without fail, on drives, you are going to see the release and follow-through initiate the heel rotation.

You cannot brace against rotational torque in a meaningful way. Try it. Stand up and don't allow any lateral movement at all with your weight. Spin and brace that torque. Then notice that when you try to force the brace feeling you are introducing lateral movement. Try to make that your primary intended direction of movement and your brace will get very easy to feel.
The heel rotates because the rotation of the front hip is forcing it to pivot. It's delayed, already twisting then, after the front hip has turned the heel must pivot.
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  #182  
Old 09-18-2020, 10:36 AM
RowingBoats RowingBoats is offline
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The heel rotates because the rotation of the front hip is forcing it to pivot. It's delayed, already twisting then, after the front hip has turned the heel must pivot.
This mental model of the action is just going to be limited, because it is still backwards. If you think about what you are saying -- that rotation is the primary engine -- how can you 'stop' that rotation in the brace? You cannot. You can only stop your incidental lateral movement, and are way out of position to accelerate after 'wasting' your power pulling your arm too quickly from the back-swing.

There is a well of potential building more and more lateral momentum into a solid brace, and transferring that to the disc. There is barely any potential in spinning too early, deliberately, and always being limited to the incidental, out of position lateral movement that you will have to brace against.
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  #183  
Old 09-18-2020, 11:19 AM
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This mental model of the action is just going to be limited, because it is still backwards. If you think about what you are saying -- that rotation is the primary engine -- how can you 'stop' that rotation in the brace? You cannot. You can only stop your incidental lateral movement, and are way out of position to accelerate after 'wasting' your power pulling your arm too quickly from the back-swing.

There is a well of potential building more and more lateral momentum into a solid brace, and transferring that to the disc. There is barely any potential in spinning too early, deliberately, and always being limited to the incidental, out of position lateral movement that you will have to brace against.
If you arrive at the moment where the disc is being pulled into the power pocket and your hips aren't substantially already twisted, you will get no power to throw. Look at what Paige Pierces hips are doing- how much they have already rotated by the time she gets the disc pulled in to her power pocket, specifically, at the 1:07 moment. Freeze it at precisely 1:07-

https://youtu.be/Nf39x7vDbAg
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  #184  
Old 09-18-2020, 11:48 AM
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azplaya25 azplaya25 is offline
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I completely agree and this is part of what baffles me. If I do pick up a literal spear I would do that instinctively. What is it about a disc that made me have to claw my way out of strong-arming it as my first instinct? Then my second instinct was to rotate early to whip my arm out...then I finally remembered "Oh ya, I already know how to throw an object."

I think perhaps there is a subconscious bias due to the light-weight of the disc, and the fact that it is a circular rotating object itself. A bias that makes our first instinct rotational in our intentions. Weird stuff.

Light weight of the disc but also just trying to powerfully throw something backhand isn’t exactly a move we’ve all been doing our whole lives lol. Biggest thing that’s helped me is focusing on swinging my arm rather than throwing the disc. If I tell my body “swing my arm like it’s a bat” I can do that no problem and it feels natural.


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  #185  
Old 09-18-2020, 11:57 AM
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azplaya25 azplaya25 is offline
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If you arrive at the moment where the disc is being pulled into the power pocket and your hips aren't substantially already twisted, you will get no power to throw. Look at what Paige Pierces hips are doing- how much they have already rotated by the time she gets the disc pulled in to her power pocket, specifically, at the 1:07 moment. Freeze it at precisely 1:07-

https://youtu.be/Nf39x7vDbAg

Dude..she is making a lateral, diagonal stride at 1:07. What you see as hip rotation is just her swinging the disc back as she makes the lateral stride. Even Paige says in an interview that it’s a lateral move. No amount of videos are going to convince anyone that we should be rotating our hips into the brace. You stride, brace, and rotate. If you focus on generating power by rotating your hips, you are going to cap your potential and you probably won’t ever throw much further than you are right now.
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  #186  
Old 09-18-2020, 12:01 PM
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Dude..she is making a lateral, diagonal stride at 1:07. What you see as hip rotation is just her swinging the disc back as she makes the lateral stride. Even Paige says in an interview that it’s a lateral move. No amount of videos are going to convince anyone that we should be rotating our hips into the brace. You stride, brace, and rotate. If you focus on generating power by rotating your hips, you are going to cap your potential and you probably won’t ever throw much further than you are right now.
At 1:07 Paige is beginning her brace but the weight hasn't fully transitioned yet. By the end of 1:07 her weight has shifted. Her hips have already started to rotate forward. Can you not see this?

Last edited by RoDeO; 09-18-2020 at 12:03 PM.
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  #187  
Old 09-18-2020, 12:07 PM
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Here's another way to look at it. Do a runup and x step and just as you come into thst crush the can moment and feel what your hips are doing at that precise moment. You should feel a small rotational loading in your hips at this point.
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  #188  
Old 09-18-2020, 12:56 PM
RowingBoats RowingBoats is offline
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Here's another way to look at it. Do a runup and x step and just as you come into thst crush the can moment and feel what your hips are doing at that precise moment. You should feel a small rotational loading in your hips at this point.
I just don't understand where you think this concept is going to take you. When you feel the lateral momentum transfer into a brace, even at the low effort/speed levels that I am limiting myself to, it is crystal clear that there is a WHOLE lot of room to increase that force.

When you wrote in a previous thread about how you feel progress comes, it seems like you are just hoping that your body magically continues to spin faster and faster, slowly gaining power over time. That just...isn't it from my perspective.

I guess in a couple of months we can see what we have both learned maybe!
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  #189  
Old 09-18-2020, 01:33 PM
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I just don't understand where you think this concept is going to take you. When you feel the lateral momentum transfer into a brace, even at the low effort/speed levels that I am limiting myself to, it is crystal clear that there is a WHOLE lot of room to increase that force.

When you wrote in a previous thread about how you feel progress comes, it seems like you are just hoping that your body magically continues to spin faster and faster, slowly gaining power over time. That just...isn't it from my perspective.

I guess in a couple of months we can see what we have both learned maybe!
It very possibly could be that in your mind the lateral move is important and you don't realize the rotational forces and the timing of it. In my mind I don't see the lateral movement so much as feel the rotational forces and the timing of that event. Our mechanics may be doing the same thing, we just conceptualize it differently.

This morning I worked on one of my drills I do where I try to throw the farthest with the very least amount of effort. I threw 300 feet very easily several times. So, I know, whatever I'm doing, it's working.
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  #190  
Old 09-18-2020, 01:45 PM
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My distance has been on a linear progression where I see slow steady gains. Holes that were impossible to get early on I now get with ease. They aren't far holes by any means but there was a time, not too long ago, where I thought 300 feet was just unreachable. Now, Im eyeying down a 432 foot hole on a course that I think can be reached in one throw. Probably not this year but next year for sure.
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