#211  
Old 09-21-2020, 02:49 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
In this video I link, at the moment of brace (where the weight has shifted) to the front leg, how much rotation of the hips have already taken place? This is where the real rubber meets the road

https://youtu.be/BmZnUEsFnbw
Altuve has a very slow shift and not very efficient as he is trying to rotate from the rear leg and ends up not rotating much and instead moving forward thru the brace.

Griffey is not trying rotate before planting front foot, it's all forward stride backing up into plant. Right after the front foot plants, is when you really see everything released into blazing fast rotation after a more sudden shift to front foot.



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  #212  
Old 09-21-2020, 03:24 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by timothy42b View Post
That tennis site you linked to has the upper arm to shoulder angle varying (flapping?) during the stroke. That seems somewhat contradictory to what we talk about here. Dunno though.
It will compress and spring during the throw. Pros typically maintain a wider upper arm angle(longer moment arm/lever) and have less upper arm movement/collapsing than Ams.

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  #213  
Old 09-21-2020, 09:21 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Altuve has a very slow shift and not very efficient as he is trying to rotate from the rear leg and ends up not rotating much and instead moving forward thru the brace.

Griffey is not trying rotate before planting front foot, it's all forward stride backing up into plant. Right after the front foot plants, is when you really see everything released into blazing fast rotation after a more sudden shift to front foot.



They all rotate to some degree before their front foot becomes planted and the weight shifts into the brace. Even Griffey does it. Even you do it. Both legs help facilitate rotation, that's my point. The rear leg and hip begin rotating before the brace. I thought more about the lawnmower pull and a good lawnmower pull begins with the weight on the side of where the pull starts. As the pull starts to come through into the power pocket the weight shifts but by this point the rear leg and hip have substantially already driven and rotated. In your sliw motion I think it is fair to say that your hips start at about the 7:00 position. As your weight shifts and you brace your hips have rotated to the 9:00 position. At release your hips are about 11:00 position. Thus, the hips transition and rotate equally as the weight shifts from one side to the other.

https://youtu.be/ok26o-xSVRA
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  #214  
Old 09-21-2020, 11:04 AM
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azplaya25 azplaya25 is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
They all rotate to some degree before their front foot becomes planted and the weight shifts into the brace. Even Griffey does it. Even you do it. Both legs help facilitate rotation, that's my point. The rear leg and hip begin rotating before the brace. I thought more about the lawnmower pull and a good lawnmower pull begins with the weight on the side of where the pull starts. As the pull starts to come through into the power pocket the weight shifts but by this point the rear leg and hip have substantially already driven and rotated. In your sliw motion I think it is fair to say that your hips start at about the 7:00 position. As your weight shifts and you brace your hips have rotated to the 9:00 position. At release your hips are about 11:00 position. Thus, the hips transition and rotate equally as the weight shifts from one side to the other.

https://youtu.be/ok26o-xSVRA

You are seeing things and coming up with examples to prove your point but they just aren’t accurate man. Rotating your hips before the brace is just leaking power, there is no debate about it. Look at these two pictures. Towards the top of the backswing, weight completely on the back leg, to the brace, weight transferred, can crushed. This is a linear move he is making. Any move you make here that is not linear is leaking power. I honestly would prefer that just spinning your hips as fast as possible was the right way to do it because it’s hard as hell to go from that habit to this linear move. But if you want to throw far, you have to get over this concept you are stubbornly clinging to.


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Old 09-21-2020, 11:20 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by azplaya25 View Post
You are seeing things and coming up with examples to prove your point but they just aren’t accurate man. Rotating your hips before the brace is just leaking power, there is no debate about it. Look at these two pictures. Towards the top of the backswing, weight completely on the back leg, to the brace, weight transferred, can crushed. This is a linear move he is making. Any move you make here that is not linear is leaking power. I honestly would prefer that just spinning your hips as fast as possible was the right way to do it because it’s hard as hell to go from that habit to this linear move. But if you want to throw far, you have to get over this concept you are stubbornly clinging to.


Im not stubbornly clinging to a bad concept. Even though in the picture his weight hasn't truly shifted into the brace quite yet his hips have already started rotating. The brace actually happens when all his weight shifts onto that leg.

There is a definite linear and rotational motion into front foot brace. That rotation continues through brace into release.
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:25 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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If there was truly no rotation until the weight all shifts onto the front leg, what then provides rotation? Again- try to truly throw just standing on your front leg with your rear leg and foot off the ground.
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:28 AM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
Thus, the hips transition and rotate equally as the weight shifts from one side to the other.
Griffey does not do this. He goes maybe 8:00-8:30, then unwinds to 12:00.

Are you saying the hip rotation you describe from 7:00-11:00 is equal both in terms of position AND rate of rotation? Like the back half and front half are at a constant rate of rotation?
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:46 AM
RowingBoats RowingBoats is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
If there was truly no rotation until the weight all shifts onto the front leg, what then provides rotation? Again- try to truly throw just standing on your front leg with your rear leg and foot off the ground.
It takes a fair bit of balance, but I actually can generate the feeling of a lateral shift while standing on one leg. If I am allowed to hop on the plant leg, I can generate considerable momentum, actually.
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:49 AM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
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Originally Posted by RoDeO View Post
If there was truly no rotation until the weight all shifts onto the front leg, what then provides rotation? Again- try to truly throw just standing on your front leg with your rear leg and foot off the ground.
Asked and answered multiple times before. The extension of the brace leg and hip provide rotation. They turn the forward momentum into rotation.

Now flip it around: try throwing with your back leg providing rotation, but not bracing with either your back leg or front leg.
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  #220  
Old 09-21-2020, 11:55 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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Originally Posted by SaROCaM View Post
Griffey does not do this. He goes maybe 8:00-8:30, then unwinds to 12:00.

Are you saying the hip rotation you describe from 7:00-11:00 is equal both in terms of position AND rate of rotation? Like the back half and front half are at a constant rate of rotation?
Every player begins at slightly different degrees of hip rotation. Some more than others. The rear leg begins to rotate before solid front foot plant. It has to. Have you ever had your rear foot slip just as you started to drive into brace? Not only do you lose most of your linear power you also lose all your rotational power. Pretend like you are starting your lawnmower. You begin with your chest facing the pull handle and your hips rotated to the rear with your weight primarily on the rear leg. As you pull watch and feel what your rear leg is doing. Not only is it pushing your body away from the mower it is rotating at the same time into the brace leg. If you tried to pull with just linear motion and no hip rotation into brace you have no power.

Equal in rotation degrees. Not sure exactly on how fast the rotation is but probably a more linear acceleration rate into release just like the torso and arm.
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