#11  
Old 08-26-2020, 11:16 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by RocHucker View Post
Is this only true of the one leg drill specifically, or true of the actual full throw as well? Obviously during the x-step you are on the rear leg at points, but should the weight *feel* centered over the front leg or hip throughout the throw motion?

During the backswing I have been really feeling like my weight is over the rear foot and coiled into the rear leg... is that wrong?
A "standstill" or "one leg drill" has a real backswing/CoG move away from the target to initiate, and also redirection targetward in backswing.

In x-step CoG is continually moving forward dynamically centered in backswing while turning/tilting/lagging back.

In both ^^ most people try to load extra weight back/lean/tip back off balance so then the upper body and lower body get out of kilter/topsy turvy in the shift, and can't really accelerate the center in dynamic balance between the feet. The shift becomes wonky/sloshy instead of smooth and fluid.

Your weight is automatically "back" on rear leg in x-step because your CoG is starting behind the rear foot and has to move forward over it. So trying to lean back further behind the rear foot is counter-productive and any tilt/lean back before getting in front of the rear foot is wasted energy and slowing things down. You can really only tilt/turn back after passing over the rear foot and actually still load back into/inside the rear foot/leg.

Same thing when people turn back or "reachback" too early in x-step before rear leg. It's not getting loaded or winding back into/inside the rear foot if you turn back before it.

It would be akin to Kyle here starting the backswing before planting his rear foot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zeKepHH6t4

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  #12  
Old 09-08-2020, 08:09 AM
timothy42b timothy42b is offline
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I still find this confusing.

I've done this drill many hundreds, probably thousands of times, and yes I realize now I'm way too literal. I've also thrown a lot of rounds from one leg, proving how literal I am.

Shawn Clements is clear that you don't apply force with the back leg. SW22's one leg video does not look like he drives with the back leg. The gas pedal drill is how to drive with both leg and ankle of the back leg. The baseball videos are all about how to drive with the back leg. The long drive golf videos talk about a combination of three forces: horizontal, vertical, and rotation. Paige's video says your back leg should be the only thing that works hard while throwing.

When I try, I can swing by weighting the front leg or by driving off the back leg, but not both.

Can you see why it seems confusing?
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  #13  
Old 09-08-2020, 03:19 PM
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azplaya25 azplaya25 is offline
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Originally Posted by timothy42b View Post
I still find this confusing.

I've done this drill many hundreds, probably thousands of times, and yes I realize now I'm way too literal. I've also thrown a lot of rounds from one leg, proving how literal I am.

Shawn Clements is clear that you don't apply force with the back leg. SW22's one leg video does not look like he drives with the back leg. The gas pedal drill is how to drive with both leg and ankle of the back leg. The baseball videos are all about how to drive with the back leg. The long drive golf videos talk about a combination of three forces: horizontal, vertical, and rotation. Paige's video says your back leg should be the only thing that works hard while throwing.

When I try, I can swing by weighting the front leg or by driving off the back leg, but not both.

Can you see why it seems confusing?

If you are balanced on your front leg, then during your backswing you use your back leg as kind of a kick stand to redirect your center of gravity forward, I think that is what we are after. Bouncing of the back leg and redirecting your momentum is a lot different than driving off the back leg with all your force.


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  #14  
Old 09-08-2020, 03:51 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by timothy42b View Post

When I try, I can swing by weighting the front leg or by driving off the back leg, but not both.

Can you see why it seems confusing?
I'm not sure what you mean?

Rear leg drive must be completed in backswing. If you are trying to rear leg drive during forward swing then you are fighting momentum.

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Old 09-08-2020, 04:58 PM
RocHucker RocHucker is offline
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
I'm not sure what you mean?

Rear leg drive must be completed in backswing. If you are trying to rear leg drive during forward swing then you are fighting momentum.

This confuses me as well, so I'm going to try to repeat it back to you to make sure I understand:

Rear leg drive happens strictly during the "fall/prepare" phase that he talks about in the video. The actual swing forward happens when the front foot makes solid contact with the ground. Once the front foot is planted, the forward swing of the arm is powered by the front leg driving the front hip backwards...
So for learning purposes, the rear leg drive could be replaced with just teetering forward on the rear leg, similar to a batter. Once we've mastered catching the fall with the front leg and using the front leg to drive the front hip backwards (thereby torquing the hips around), a rear leg drive can be added to increase the energy that we're creating during the "fall" phase?
correct?

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  #16  
Old 09-08-2020, 05:18 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by RocHucker View Post
So for learning purposes, the rear leg drive could be replaced with just teetering forward on the rear leg, similar to a batter. Once we've mastered catching the fall with the front leg and using the front leg to drive the front hip backwards (thereby torquing the hips around), a rear leg drive can be added to increase the energy that we're creating during the "fall" phase?
correct?
Correct, you give the engine more gas/energy to work with by stepping on the accelerator pedal with the rear foot, rather than relying on gravity alone.

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  #17  
Old 09-08-2020, 10:30 PM
RFrance RFrance is offline
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This made a lot of sense to me and cleared things up in Mike Malaska’s video starting at 16:52
https://youtu.be/UrSbWfNMapE?t=1012. “Push away from the momentum...”


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Last edited by RFrance; 09-08-2020 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 09-09-2020, 06:14 AM
RocHucker RocHucker is offline
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If we were to try learning how to brace by teetering off the back leg before adding rear leg drive, how much throw distance do you think would be a good indicator that we've properly learned the teeter and brace and are ready to add in rear leg drive? Roughly speaking, of course, as I'm sure it varies person to person
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Old 09-09-2020, 10:12 AM
RoDeO RoDeO is offline
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One thing that shouldn't be lost in the conversation and is vital to this drill is that hip rotation or torso rotation starts just prior to front foot/brace leg contact. By the time the weight has shifted fully to the fron foot at brace moment, and the shift has gone mostly from the back foot to the front foot, the disc is still in the reach back position but the hip has already rotated to where it's now straight out from the body. There's a lot of talk about not rotating until one has planted onto the brace leg. This is true for the shoulders. But the hips have already rotated halfway through its motion by this point.
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  #20  
Old 09-09-2020, 12:19 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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this was a video I shared with a guy I've been working with for a while. It's not an edited video, and some of the ideas were very specific to him, but I think the middle bit specifically about where the hips move from top of backswing to the downswing may be helpful.

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