#331  
Old 06-21-2019, 01:43 PM
Jolt Jolt is offline
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I think this helps retailers honestly. There's so many discs that come out and push those middleground/forgotten about molds to the backburner. It would suck for a retailer to get a stack of a few of these molds and then they don't move at all....would probably sour them on ordering the new thing that isn't a high speed driver or what they're told they should compared to a known entity.

Like why order a stack of the new OS putter like the Slammer when they know they can sell Zones/Harps? I mean initially noone knew they weren't selling, but at this point now they can't make that "incorrect decision" since they are OOP I guess.

It's one thing being able to order them one at a time if you want as a consumer from the factory, but imagine if you bought a dozen of one of these US mids as a retailer and sold one....but sold like 30 Truths in the same time period.
Almost all those DD disc went on 20-25% sale last week here in Sweden. . so i agree must be hard for the stores to have that many moulds on the shelf
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  #332  
Old 06-21-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
I think this helps retailers honestly. There's so many discs that come out and push those middleground/forgotten about molds to the backburner. It would suck for a retailer to get a stack of a few of these molds and then they don't move at all....would probably sour them on ordering the new thing that isn't a high speed driver or what they're told they should compared to a known entity.

Like why order a stack of the new OS putter like the Slammer when they know they can sell Zones/Harps? I mean initially noone knew they weren't selling, but at this point now they can't make that "incorrect decision" since they are OOP I guess.

It's one thing being able to order them one at a time if you want as a consumer from the factory, but imagine if you bought a dozen of one of these US mids as a retailer and sold one....but sold like 30 Truths in the same time period.
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Almost all those DD disc went on 20-25% sale last week here in Sweden. . so i agree must be hard for the stores to have that many moulds on the shelf
I agree that it's hard on retailers, especially online retailers, to have to keep that many molds in stock. But the flip side to that coin is that they're not going to reorder the slow-selling ones, and they are going to reorder those they do sell lots of. They sell out of Zones and Harps and Teebirds, they order more. Warrants and Freedoms collecting dust on the shelves, they're not going to order more.

Also, the Big Box stores like Academy don't stock every mold, not anywhere close. I think they get Grooves pushed on them, but if those don't move off the shelves, even they say "no mas" to taking in more. PIASs have a lot of choices, but they are going to order more of what sells and less of what doesn't, at least I would think so.

So yes, it's part of the argument DD makes, but make no mistake about it that stopping production of that bottom 10% of sellers is helping DD more than the retailers.

(And just so we're clear, here: I'm not saying they should not have done what they did; just that it's worthy of discussion whether they're going about it the right way, and the reasons why...)
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  #333  
Old 06-21-2019, 02:13 PM
eman6854 eman6854 is offline
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Yeah, it certainly seems like they're having cash flow problems based on the scuttlebutt a few pages back. Supposedly the big year in sales that Discraft is enjoying is taking a big bite out of DD's sales. That means retailers are ordering fewer discs from DD, which means there's not enough $$ flowing in to maintain operations at the levels they're used to.

Lat64's operations are more diversified, and thus the drop in American sales should be less impactful to them. They have a larger European presence where (I assume) Discraft isn't stealing as much market share, plus they get $$ both from sales and from manufacturing DD's products, plus they have a new contract to produce some Discmania molds. So while a drop in sales in America hurts, their business model is set up in a way to sustain a hit like that much better than DD's. I'm sure all factions of the Trilogy are hurting, but DD's pain is likely much more severe.
I don't know what lats manufacturing capacity is, but it seems like some of the big sellers aren't always fully stocked in all weights/colors. For example on DD's site stock stamp opto explorers are only available in red, orange, and yellow. Why would they take on discmania if they can't supply their own stuff? Maybe a lot of their discs aren't selling well and there could be a major cut of molds by them. I bag all trilogy and my only lat disc right now is a pioneer I'm trying out.
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  #334  
Old 06-21-2019, 02:23 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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(And just so we're clear, here: I'm not saying they should not have done what they did; just that it's worthy of discussion whether they're going about it the right way, and the reasons why...)
I don't think there's anything wrong with their choice to stop production on those molds (especially if they're not particularly low in inventory)...companies make those kinds of decisions all the time. Whether to make it public knowledge is probably the thing worth debating.

On the one hand, they create a minor bit of panic in those that throw the molds that they need to stock up, which might give a temporary boost to the sales of the discs. On the other hand, if they quietly took the molds out of production and just let their existing inventory dwindle over the next couple years, how do the fans of those molds react when suddenly it's hard to find them because the inventory has run out entirely? At least with the warning, players can pick up a few more of their favorites while they're still widely available. For them, it has to beat the alternative of having to spend more in the after-market. I mean, that's where the collector's market truly began...people seeking out discs they knew they couldn't get anymore and being willing to spend more money to get them.
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  #335  
Old 06-21-2019, 02:28 PM
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...
Why would they take on discmania if they can't supply their own stuff? Maybe a lot of their discs aren't selling well and there could be a major cut of molds by them. I bag all trilogy and my only lat disc right now is a pioneer I'm trying out.
From a manufacturing standpoint, Trilogy does not exist, DD does not exist, Westside does not exist; only Lat64 exists.

We do not know the internals of what is going on. Perhaps it is DD is cutting their lowest sellers due to demand; perhaps it is that Lat64 is making more profit from Discmania and taking less orders from DD, forcing DD to make decisions on what discs they need the most.... perhaps a bit of both.

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  #336  
Old 06-21-2019, 02:29 PM
Jolt Jolt is offline
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I really try to NOT have OOP discs in my bag. . so i don΄t "stock up" i move on to something else when a disc i throw goes OOP

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  #337  
Old 06-21-2019, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
I don't think there's anything wrong with their choice to stop production on those molds (especially if they're not particularly low in inventory)...companies make those kinds of decisions all the time. Whether to make it public knowledge is probably the thing worth debating.

On the one hand, they create a minor bit of panic in those that throw the molds that they need to stock up, which might give a temporary boost to the sales of the discs. On the other hand, if they quietly took the molds out of production and just let their existing inventory dwindle over the next couple years, how do the fans of those molds react when suddenly it's hard to find them because the inventory has run out entirely? At least with the warning, players can pick up a few more of their favorites while they're still widely available. For them, it has to beat the alternative of having to spend more in the after-market. I mean, that's where the collector's market truly began...people seeking out discs they knew they couldn't get anymore and being willing to spend more money to get them.
I agree. The announcement was fine. And yes, it'll create a run and get some of that inventory moved.
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  #338  
Old 06-21-2019, 02:33 PM
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From a manufacturing standpoint, Trilogy does not exist, DD does not exist, Westside does not exist; only Lat64 exists.

We do not know the internals of what is going on. Perhaps it is DD is cutting their lowest sellers due to demand; perhaps it is that Lat64 is making more profit from Discmania and taking less orders from DD, forcing DD to make decisions on what discs they need the most.... perhaps a bit of both.
Agreed, and this is why I said I wanted to see what discs Lat64 and Westside cut, as it'll give us a more clear picture of what's going on.

And yes... there are a lot of other moving pieces with all of this. Lat's agreement with Discmania, for one example. But that'll sort itself out...
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  #339  
Old 06-21-2019, 02:38 PM
eman6854 eman6854 is offline
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Originally Posted by wolfmandragon View Post
From a manufacturing standpoint, Trilogy does not exist, DD does not exist, Westside does not exist; only Lat64 exists.

We do not know the internals of what is going on. Perhaps it is DD is cutting their lowest sellers due to demand; perhaps it is that Lat64 is making more profit from Discmania and taking less orders from DD, forcing DD to make decisions on what discs they need the most.... perhaps a bit of both.
From my understanding there is dynamic discs retail and dynamic disc distribution and I believe all of latitudes discs have to come into the country through dynamic distribution (except personal orders from latitudes site). As long as that contract is in place it should protect dynamic discs ability to get their discs made.
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  #340  
Old 06-28-2019, 12:22 PM
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I've started thinking again about the Lat64 and WS lineups, and I could see the following disappearing:

Cutlass
Halo and Havocs
Raketen and Missilen
Scythe
all the overmolds [Bryce, Sarek, Zion, Gobi and Fuji (the overmold experiment is over)]
River Pros
Falchion
Striker
Spark
Mace
Core
Gauntlet
Spike
Macana

That's 20 molds. And I suspect there's a couple more that will disappear (like the Knight and maybe the Maul).

For WS:

Swan 1 Reborn
Crown
Sling
Pine
Warship (?)
Sampo
Seer
World
Sorcerer or Giant (?)
Queen
Northman

11 molds here.

Last edited by dwayne.hoffman; 06-28-2019 at 12:24 PM.
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