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Old 04-26-2018, 02:53 PM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
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Default Defender vs. Giant

I'm looking to pair one of these molds with my Swords which I really have come to like.

Reading older posts gives some conflicting opinions/reviews; plus I'm thinking people have some more experience throwing these now. For those who have thrown them, how do y'all like these discs?

Went out and threw them in a field and on open course holes the last couple days (2 Biofuzion Defenders, 2 VIP Giants) to see which I liked better. Of course, the 2 Defenders seemed to fly differently from each other, complicating things somewhat. I'm leaning towards the Giants, or maybe keeping the Defender I liked and trying to find more like it.

So, since my sample size for these molds is 2 of each, I'm looking for more experiences. How do these molds fly for you? How do they season? How much does the plastic type matter? Should I be comparing Lucid Defenders to the VIP Giants? Especially interested in the experiences of those throwing these around 360-400 feet.
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2018, 03:03 PM
Moose33 Moose33 is offline
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I’ve got a good stack of Giants mostly VIP and a couple of Elasto. I like them a lot and throw them with slight turn and good fade at 400-450 feet.

I’ve not thrown a Defenser very much but the feel and flightdidnt gel quite as well for me. I got more turn than I was expecting.

If you want to do apples to apples do Lucid/VIP but if you like Bio give it a go.

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Old 04-26-2018, 03:09 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Never owned either, but have thrown half a dozen of each...so not a ton of experience but some. Plastic type absolutely matters. VIP Giant and Lucid Defender will be much closer to each other, and should be very OS in that range. I cannot throw those plastics 360+ flat, that's for sure. Whereas a Bio Defender, especially if it's lower wing or has been used for a bit, would be in that range for me. They will hold straight with maybe some walk to the right, and then have a hefty fade, with a lot of glide for the speed and stability. But they will not hold in a headwind if you are throwing them that hard.

Both discs have some variation, I have thrown insanely beefy Giants before that were like a speed 12/13 FAF Firebird, and also have thrown Lucid Defenders that were like a very OS Destroyer. I really think that you can find a similar range of stabilities in either disc if you are willing to throw different plastics. It would come down to hand feel, or if the feel is so similar to you you can throw both easily for whatever slot they take.

The thing I don't know between them and would likely be the deciding factor to me, is when you have one that is moderately beat in for stable lines like -0.5/2, how well do they handle wind compared to each other. The one that ignores wind better is the one I would choose.

Also let the Bio Defenders beat in, I've seen them change over the course of a month and get a bit more turn but still be trusty golf throwers when not in hard wind, before you decide to go all in on one or the other.

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Old 04-26-2018, 06:48 PM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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I personally prefer the Defender. Its fast and fairly overstable. IMO its at least a number faster than the Giant.

Both are good molds. They can be thrown very hard and flat before a big fade at the end of flight.

Giants have kind of been all over the place for me. Some are almost flippy, while others are extremely beefy with little glide. I can't really figure that disc out.

You might also look at the World if you want a really fast, overstable driver that will still fly flat for a good ways. I think the World is more like a Defender than a Giant is.

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Old 04-26-2018, 07:37 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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I don't think the World is nearly as good of a disc. Once it gets over a certain speed it flips like crazy, but if it's below that speed like you either take a little off or there's tailwind it acts very OS. It can be long, and is a good long driver in <5MPH wind, but I don't think it's very trustworthy in different conditions or on certain angles. The Defender is what I wanted the World to be.

I haven't thrown Giants as much as Defenders but I prefer Defenders from my limited experience. I'd need a true shootout to see exactly the differences, but I've just clicked with Defenders better and thrown some extremely beefy Giants that I couldn't handle.

Last edited by slowplastic; 04-26-2018 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:11 PM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
I don't think the World is nearly as good of a disc. Once it gets over a certain speed it flips like crazy, but if it's below that speed like you either take a little off or there's tailwind it acts very OS. It can be long, and is a good long driver in <5MPH wind, but I don't think it's very trustworthy in different conditions or on certain angles. The Defender is what I wanted the World to be.

I haven't thrown Giants as much as Defenders but I prefer Defenders from my limited experience. I'd need a true shootout to see exactly the differences, but I've just clicked with Defenders better and thrown some extremely beefy Giants that I couldn't handle.
I've come to the conclusion that Westside and Dynamic simply make horribly inconsistent discs when it comes to speed 13-14 drivers. Some fly true to the numbers, but most I've seen are much more understable. I've thrown 3 Worlds. All VIP. 1 was really beefy and had no turn even on very hard rips. 1 was borderline flippy. The other is an air world, so it was somewhat flippy too. For being 158g it held up well to hard throws.

I love the Defender. Granted I only have 1 and haven't thrown others. I don't know how mine would compare to others.

I'll agree with you the World is all over the place. I'd probably take the World over the Giant though.
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:33 AM
chadair chadair is offline
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Plastic type seems to matter a lot for Giants. A broken-in Recycled Giant will fly like your Sword. An Elasto Giant is beefy and fairly glideless. Air Giants are interesting for those like me with weaker arms, and have a nice S curve without being too wild in windy conditions. I have about 12 Giants in various plastics, and the mold consistency has been good for me. Most of the flight difference is due to plastic types.

Also, right now the Gladiator is vying for the spot occupied by my Recycled Giants. It's an underrated disc with just a bit less stability than the Giant. I'll keep my Elasto Giants for blustery days.

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Old 04-27-2018, 12:37 AM
SaROCaM SaROCaM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twmccoy View Post
I've come to the conclusion that Westside and Dynamic simply make horribly inconsistent discs when it comes to speed 13-14 drivers. Some fly true to the numbers, but most I've seen are much more understable.
Consistency between discs is definitely a factor. Both Bio Defenders are 173g, but one of them flies much better than the other. The pair of Giants I have seem to be consistent, so maybe I got lucky there. I have learned to ignore flight numbers with Trilogy discs.

I field tested again today with some wind to work with. Will probably take them all out for some rounds and more field work to let them season a little. This makes a lot of sense:

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
The thing I don't know between them and would likely be the deciding factor to me, is when you have one that is moderately beat in for stable lines like -0.5/2, how well do they handle wind compared to each other. The one that ignores wind better is the one I would choose.

Also let the Bio Defenders beat in, I've seen them change over the course of a month and get a bit more turn but still be trusty golf throwers when not in hard wind, before you decide to go all in on one or the other.
Kinda funny story: My last throw of the day was with one of the Giants. My plant foot slipped and I ended up falling/rolling as I threw. (I laughed at myself.) I have no idea how the disc flew (was it a big hyzer?) but when I went to find the disc, it ended up being about 25 feet to the left of the line along which I was aiming, and was still a 340' throw. So despite all the dozens of throws from the day, my takeaway was that even if I screw it up, the Giant still produced a reasonable result.

+1 for the Giant so far.
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Old 04-27-2018, 01:10 AM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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The most overstable Giant I have is a tournament plastic one that is a super glideless pig. I can lay into it with all I have and the disc goes nowhere. It reminds me of one of the beefy early McBeth Destroyers. Glideless and short.

The VIP Giants I've seen are more reasonable and have a little high speed turn.
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Old 04-27-2018, 09:53 PM
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BrotherDave BrotherDave is offline
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No Defender experience.

I've gone through some Giants, I find them fairly consistent. Most of them are generally decently OS enough to deal with headwinds but still go somewhere, somewhat. My beat up TP Giant is actually kind of flippy and will stay turned over a lot if given any anhyzer but always hooks up given enough air. My beefiest Giant was a dark blue VIP that I traded to Moose b/c it was really stout. You could easily tell it was an outlier b/c the PLH was way higher than most Giants.
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