#701  
Old 07-26-2016, 07:41 AM
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dobbins66 dobbins66 is offline
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Originally Posted by burnin4 View Post
Jerry, regardless of the non-pdga member loop hole, the guy took cash at pdga events for 8 years, even won the German Open and got 2nd in the European Masters, both Pro Master PDGA events. How is that fair? We can take this conversation to pm, don't want to get this thread locked. I'll let everyone know what how the PDGA is going to handle this.
I agree, He should not have been allowed in. But lack of point criteria and earlier registration period made it possible for him to signup free of the mess we went through. Let me know what you find out.
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  #702  
Old 07-26-2016, 12:12 PM
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  #703  
Old 07-26-2016, 01:08 PM
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lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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First time I've read the eligibility. If, as it looks, MK took cash in Europe at PDGA events, he is ineligible. It will take the PDGA a while to sort it out, simply because they always do their research to make sure they don't make a mistake, but it seems pretty clear cut... unless we don't know the whole story. Always a possibility.
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  #704  
Old 07-26-2016, 02:20 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
First time I've read the eligibility. If, as it looks, MK took cash in Europe at PDGA events, he is ineligible. It will take the PDGA a while to sort it out, simply because they always do their research to make sure they don't make a mistake, but it seems pretty clear cut... unless we don't know the whole story. Always a possibility.
If he took the cash as a non-member, that really isn't the case. The PDGA doesn't track players who are not members, nor do they really back-track new member's careers to find past events (unless within the same calendar year as joining or at the request of the player). Since they don't track non-members, what he did before he became a member is irrelevant. There were no red flags to notice as far as they were concerned.

Is it fair that such a "loophole" seems to exist? No. But what can the PDGA really do short of either making all PDGA events members only (with no "temp" memberships via non-member fees) or requiring non-members to identify themselves with consistent forms of ID at every event they play? How else should they try to distinguish one John Smith from another John Smith from another John Smith (and not confuse them with any of the seven John Smiths who are members whose member number might have been omitted accidentally from a report)?

Here's the big thing with this particular player, or really any case similar to this...he was on the registration list for months prior to the tournament being played. From what I gather from the last few pages, someone was "tipped off" to this guy and that's what started the discussion here (and in the deleted thread), so was the one with the tip aware of the player's history before the event? If so, why wait until after he wins to speak up? Why not contact the PDGA and inquire about the guy's eligibility before he flies into Wisconsin and plays the tournament? As I said, the PDGA office has no reason to question the guy's eligibility...why not give them one so they can be proactive about it rather than get all sour grapes about it after the fact?

Bottom line is they're not going to take the title away from him. And if they force him to go pro, it means nothing because where he plays, there's really no amateur division anyway. That's guaranteed to be the reason he's never played as an Am other than at Worlds...few if any opportunities to do so unless he travels to North America.
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  #705  
Old 07-26-2016, 04:50 PM
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According to this http://www.pdga.com/player/77622, he didn't have the points to register in the first place. I also gather he has played Winthrop sometime. Do European or overseas players not have to qualify at all or maintain amateur requirements? This is just bizarre.
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  #706  
Old 07-26-2016, 05:09 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by CraigWesnofske View Post
According to this http://www.pdga.com/player/77622, he didn't have the points to register in the first place. I also gather he has played Winthrop sometime. Do European or overseas players not have to qualify at all or maintain amateur requirements? This is just bizarre.
Qualification criteria #4. Been that way for international players for some time now.
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  #707  
Old 07-26-2016, 05:36 PM
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CraigWesnofske CraigWesnofske is offline
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So anybody who wants to get into World's without having to play Ticketmaster Disc Golf Registration just has to register as a foreign player. Nice loophole for all of those that got shut out this year. Who needs the sticker and dog tag anyway!
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  #708  
Old 07-26-2016, 05:40 PM
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CraigWesnofske CraigWesnofske is offline
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For clarity, I am talking about renewing your membership with a foreign address, regardless of whether you live there or not.
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  #709  
Old 07-26-2016, 05:47 PM
DirtyMeathook DirtyMeathook is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
If he took the cash as a non-member, that really isn't the case. The PDGA doesn't track players who are not members, nor do they really back-track new member's careers to find past events (unless within the same calendar year as joining or at the request of the player). Since they don't track non-members, what he did before he became a member is irrelevant. There were no red flags to notice as far as they were concerned.

Is it fair that such a "loophole" seems to exist? No. But what can the PDGA really do short of either making all PDGA events members only (with no "temp" memberships via non-member fees) or requiring non-members to identify themselves with consistent forms of ID at every event they play? How else should they try to distinguish one John Smith from another John Smith from another John Smith (and not confuse them with any of the seven John Smiths who are members whose member number might have been omitted accidentally from a report)?

Here's the big thing with this particular player, or really any case similar to this...he was on the registration list for months prior to the tournament being played. From what I gather from the last few pages, someone was "tipped off" to this guy and that's what started the discussion here (and in the deleted thread), so was the one with the tip aware of the player's history before the event? If so, why wait until after he wins to speak up? Why not contact the PDGA and inquire about the guy's eligibility before he flies into Wisconsin and plays the tournament? As I said, the PDGA office has no reason to question the guy's eligibility...why not give them one so they can be proactive about it rather than get all sour grapes about it after the fact?

Bottom line is they're not going to take the title away from him. And if they force him to go pro, it means nothing because where he plays, there's really no amateur division anyway. That's guaranteed to be the reason he's never played as an Am other than at Worlds...few if any opportunities to do so unless he travels to North America.
They should ask during the PDGA sign up process "have you ever accepted cash in a PDGA event." They should also ask the same thing during the event registration. Not disclosing is one thing, and it is still shady, but far fewer people are willing to actively lie.
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  #710  
Old 07-26-2016, 07:05 PM
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lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtyMeathook View Post
They should ask during the PDGA sign up process "have you ever accepted cash in a PDGA event." They should also ask the same thing during the event registration. Not disclosing is one thing, and it is still shady, but far fewer people are willing to actively lie.

I'd think it's a lot easier even than this. They should have a simple relational database with everyone who's ever cashed as any PDGA event, by name, and that can be balanced against entrants to Am Worlds. If you get a hit you look. You could even write a simple program that looks at several criteria, Name, location, PDGA number, age. Two or more hits means they get pulled and looked at. Clearly, they didn't do this, or if they did, there is some mitigating situation we don't know about.
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