#31  
Old 05-19-2019, 01:45 AM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jenga54 View Post
If I hear Jussi ever say VTech I think I'll die.

All the convex rim stuff making discs understable, oof. The P1x has it, and maybe the TDx which never even made it to a flight chart before it was 86'd

Jussi knows what players want, that's why Discmania is crushing it.
I will agree other then the VTech used for the Colt and possibly the Stud the discs are not really that great VROC is more a between putter and midrange hybrid that other discs like the Shark or Mako/3 can do better even some faster discs like the Spider and The Gator can do this better. If I hear + rims or molds for Discmania then I will cringe as that has changed up one of the most iconic putters XD to XD+ and not for the better. Only disc the + Mold has worked for is the Whale and Discmania copy of the Whale as those molds were made with the + in the mold in the first place, built around that as the concept.
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  #32  
Old 05-19-2019, 08:57 AM
B The V B The V is offline
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They made a run of PD's with the plus rim at one point.
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  #33  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Casey 1988 View Post
I will agree other then the VTech used for the Colt and possibly the Stud the discs are not really that great VROC is more a between putter and midrange hybrid that other discs like the Shark or Mako/3 can do better even some faster discs like the Spider and The Gator can do this better. If I hear + rims or molds for Discmania then I will cringe as that has changed up one of the most iconic putters XD to XD+ and not for the better. Only disc the + Mold has worked for is the Whale and Discmania copy of the Whale as those molds were made with the + in the mold in the first place, built around that as the concept.
V-tech did okay with the Whale, as well as the Colt and (especially) the Stud. V-tech is not all that bad, it just never was very popular with many DG purists.

The VRoc is a very decent disc, but the Roc purists hated the name attached to it.
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  #34  
Old 05-19-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by B The V View Post
They made a run of PD's with the plus rim at one point.
I imagine Jussi kept a closer eye on Dave after that debacle...

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  #35  
Old 05-19-2019, 12:07 PM
Moose33 Moose33 is offline
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Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
V-tech did okay with the Whale, as well as the Colt and (especially) the Stud. V-tech is not all that bad, it just never was very popular with many DG purists.

The VRoc is a very decent disc, but the Roc purists hated the name attached to it.
It’s funny, I never considered a VRoc but as soon as Infinite did the Ra(Roc3X Top VRoc wing) I tried and very much liked it. Having the Roc name attached may have actually hurt sales on that one.
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  #36  
Old 05-19-2019, 12:10 PM
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I'm a big fan of GStar. I only throw Sidewinders in that plastic, but it is my favorite plastic for the Sidewinder that is in production. I feel like they mold up better in GStar than in Champion or Star. I sure hope they don't go out of production, but if they do, I'm sitting on a stack of them.
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  #37  
Old 05-19-2019, 01:53 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD86 View Post
V-tech did okay with the Whale, as well as the Colt and (especially) the Stud. V-tech is not all that bad, it just never was very popular with many DG purists.

The VRoc is a very decent disc, but the Roc purists hated the name attached to it.
I was not sure if the Whale was Vtech as well as + mold, then the VROC is a decent disc just other Innova discs do that same slot better. The VROC in DX makes for a Windy day putter very well, as well as a longer Approach putter/disc but others like Shark and Mako as midrange and then Say putters like the Dart, Colt, and Stud even Hydra work better for these types of shots.
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  #38  
Old 05-19-2019, 02:41 PM
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Lol, this characterization of Jussi and Dave's relationship is funny.

FWIW Dave's son Kobyn is involved in disc design and has been for some time now. While Discmania and Innova's relationship as companies is far too complex and nuanced to risk discussing it on a forum without consulting the people that actually work there, let's just say that this forum has guessed at Dave's demeanor, intentions, and general disposition many many times over the years that I've been here, and has pretty much never gotten it right.

Dunipace isn't a CEO. He's an inventor. Asking him to stop inventing or refining designs would be like suggesting we play on baskets with no chains. Part of the reason we love making putts is to hear the sound, and part of the reason you as consumers put up with the bevy of high speed drivers that come and go is because you know that eventually he's going to hit one so far out of the park the other guys will be left scratching their heads.

...and this isn't me stumping for a particular company, just speaking what we all see. How many pros other than Paul Ulibarri have "gone back home" to other companies not named Innova? How many of you bought 5 different Speed 13+ drivers, then bagged the Shryke when it came out and it's still being thrown?

No shade at all meant towards anybody else, just basically saying respect the OG's process. The man knows disc design, and everybody else learned from him or from his designs.

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  #39  
Old 05-19-2019, 02:50 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTacoma03 View Post
Lol, this characterization of Jussi and Dave's relationship is funny.

FWIW Dave's son Kobyn is involved in disc design and has been for some time now. While Discmania and Innova's relationship as companies is far too complex and nuanced to risk discussing it on a forum without consulting the people that actually work there, let's just say that this forum has guessed at Dave's demeanor, intentions, and general disposition many many times over the years that I've been here, and has pretty much never gotten it right.

Dunipace isn't a CEO. He's an inventor. Asking him to stop inventing or refining designs would be like suggesting we play on baskets with no chains. Part of the reason we love making putts is to hear the sound, and part of the reason you as consumers put up with the bevy of high speed drivers that come and go is because you know that eventually he's going to hit one so far out of the park the other guys will be left scratching their heads.

...and this isn't me stumping for a particular company, just speaking what we all see. How many pros other than Paul Ulibarri have "gone back home" to other companies not named Innova? How many of you bought 5 different Speed 13+ drivers, then bagged the Shryke when it came out and it's still being thrown?

No shade at all meant towards anybody else, just basically saying respect the OG's process. The man knows disc design, and everybody else learned from him or from his designs.
I agree it is just that I feel the limit for high speed disc design is over as it is hard for any brand making discs over 12 speed to have any sort of constancy and even the pro players rarely have anything beyond a 12-13 speed discs. So then why focus some of the more recent developments to these long discs? I think doing more like the Bullfrog and other discs, the Rat in late 2017 that more discs golf players mostly the non pro players would use as well as the pro players makes more sense then focusing on these really high speed drivers. I can't use more then a 12 speed disc, the others are too high speed for my small size.
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  #40  
Old 05-20-2019, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey 1988 View Post
I agree it is just that I feel the limit for high speed disc design is over as it is hard for any brand making discs over 12 speed to have any sort of constancy and even the pro players rarely have anything beyond a 12-13 speed discs. So then why focus some of the more recent developments to these long discs? I think doing more like the Bullfrog and other discs, the Rat in late 2017 that more discs golf players mostly the non pro players would use as well as the pro players makes more sense then focusing on these really high speed drivers. I can't use more then a 12 speed disc, the others are too high speed for my small size.
I couldn't and wouldn't fault you for directing a company that way.

I do remember Dave saying in a Q&A before that the (paraphrasing here) next barrier to break is a stable disc at high speed. Or maybe making the Speed 15 FD or Leopard3 is his white whale...
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