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Old 10-19-2015, 07:14 PM
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kerplunk kerplunk is offline
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Default Surrounded by water

So we all know that "surrounded by water" is not the ideal way to define OB areas, but given that it it is a big pain to mark all OB water areas with ropes or otherwise it happens a lot. So I would like some clarification from you other rules junkies about the correct call in the following "surrounded by water" situations. I will post my own thoughts, as I believe the regular crowd around here is logical and opinionated enough it won't sway anyone's thinking.

For all these options, assume OB has been stated to be "in a creek surrounded by water."

1. Disc is in the middle of the creek resting on a rock that is out of the water (dry).
2. Disc is surrounded by water, but resting on a small piece of grass that is not attached to the shore but partially resting on the shore.
3. Disc is surrounded by water but resting on a branch that is out of the water. The branch is not attached to the shore but is partially resting on the shore.
4. Disc is surrounded by water, but resting on a small piece of grass that IS attached to the shore.
5. Disc is surrounded by water but resting on the root of a tree that is on the bank of the shore. So resting on the roots of a tree that extend beyond the dirt shore.

I have more than once heard the theory "if an ant can get to it it is in-bounds" but I don't necessarily agree with that. But that thinking did cost me a first-place finish once, so I may just be bitter.

I think:
1. OB
2. OB
3. OB
4. In
5. In

I only think 4 is in because I think 5 is in, and I don't know where one draws the line between grass and tree, so if they are attached to the shore I consider them part of the shore.

I am very interested to hear everyone's thoughts.
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2015, 07:53 PM
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PhattD PhattD is offline
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The grass is not in because it is not a playing surface so it is neither in bounds or out of bounds. If no part of the disc is touching and inbounds playing surface it is OB. The roots hanging over water would be in or out depending on whether or not they would be considered an inbounds playing surface.
I'm taking this from the description in 802.03 A. The position of the disc on the inbounds playing surface.
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:13 PM
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Broken Shoulder Broken Shoulder is offline
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Five might be tough without seeing it, but I'm inclined to think you're OB in all five scenarios.
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:18 PM
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kerplunk kerplunk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhattD View Post
The grass is not in because it is not a playing surface so it is neither in bounds or out of bounds. If no part of the disc is touching and inbounds playing surface it is OB. The roots hanging over water would be in or out depending on whether or not they would be considered an inbounds playing surface.
I'm taking this from the description in 802.03 A. The position of the disc on the inbounds playing surface.
Hmm, so I guess that means that for the "something" extending into the water to be considered a playing surface it would need to be possible to throw from that area. I don't think that solves all ambiguities of whether a root would be considered a playing surface, but it certainly helps.
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:38 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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They're all OB.

"Surrounded by water" is definitely a poor means of defining OB, but if the description of the location is "surrounded by water but..." it is not really a grey area. "Surrounded by water" is "surrounded by water". Blades of grass and tree roots aren't enough to change that.
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:59 PM
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bradharris bradharris is offline
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Unless you're playing by some weird local rules, "surrounded by water" simply means that the edge of the body of water is the OB line. If there are small exposed dry spots from rocks, branches, sandbars, etc, they're still beyond the OB line and thus are still OB.
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Old 10-19-2015, 09:23 PM
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We deal with all of this at our course---lots of O.B. water, with uneven edges, roots, all the rest, and far too much to mark otherwise.

We rule as those above---surrounded by water means just that. If there is water on all sides of the disc, it's surrounded. No being saved by a projection from shore.
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Old 10-19-2015, 10:18 PM
Vonbeezy1 Vonbeezy1 is offline
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All are O.B. And none of them should even be argued for being inbounds
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Old 10-19-2015, 10:55 PM
curt curt is offline
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I agree that all are OB, but would like to mention do,etching else. The rule of verticality would apply in a way that if 4 and 5 are in bounds, then a disc resting under either of those objects would also be in bounds.
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Old 10-19-2015, 11:39 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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All OB the way you've described them. You actually used the words that define the OB (Disc is surrounded by water...) in the description of the position of the discs.

Now, say the tree root was dry, with no water under it, so it was connected to dry land. The disc would not be surrounded by water. Then, I would call it in-bounds.

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