#31  
Old 09-25-2019, 09:36 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
The presence or absence of an official really is irrelevant about fairness.
All groups aren't playing under the same conditions when players are not consistently enforcing the rules.
It seems the general feeling is that a group with an official would have all violations called, while groups without officials have fewer violations called.

Personally, I think that for top groups there are very few chances for an official to make a call that is not being made now. There are few violations to begin with, and only a fraction of those are not called.

For other levels, I think I'm OK with the idea that "consistently" doesn't mean 100% of all calls are made, but that the percent (or maybe types) of calls that are made is the same for all groups competing at that level.

As long as the number of violations that are not called, plus the advantages gained by breaking the rules, is much smaller than the number of bad throws (those that cost a stroke), we will get correct rankings of players at all levels.
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  #32  
Old 09-25-2019, 10:37 AM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
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Originally Posted by araytx View Post
My assertion, all along, has been that in reality the part in red doesn't happen. Not uniformly consistently and correctly on most cards. Call me crazy if you think it does. So I agree with your premise about the expectations; it is just not the (current) reality. I see Steve's counter point, that my position my be unfair for different reasons -- but ultimately, all groups aren't playing under the same conditions when some have an official and some don't.
I definitely do not think you are crazy and I think ultimately agree with you! However I wouldn't like to let the status quo dictate what we SHOULD be doing or limit how we can address this going forward.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if we were to hold a tournament tomorrow I would probably agree with your stance on this. But if we were planning for a tournament a year out I would be thinking of ways to get ALL players to better embrace the self-officiating aspect of our sport.

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  #33  
Old 10-05-2019, 06:42 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
The presence or absence of an official really is irrelevant about fairness.
All groups aren't playing under the same conditions when players are not consistently enforcing the rules.
I agree with that, too.

QUOTE=robdeforge;3500982]I definitely do not think you are crazy and I think ultimately agree with you! However I wouldn't like to let the status quo dictate what we SHOULD be doing or limit how we can address this going forward.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if we were to hold a tournament tomorrow I would probably agree with your stance on this. But if we were planning for a tournament a year out I would be thinking of ways to get ALL players to better embrace the self-officiating aspect of our sport.[/QUOTE]

And that

Last edited by araytx; 10-05-2019 at 06:44 PM.
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  #34  
Old 10-05-2019, 09:30 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Originally Posted by robdeforge View Post
I definitely do not think you are crazy and I think ultimately agree with you! However I wouldn't like to let the status quo dictate what we SHOULD be doing or limit how we can address this going forward.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if we were to hold a tournament tomorrow I would probably agree with your stance on this. But if we were planning for a tournament a year out I would be thinking of ways to get ALL players to better embrace the self-officiating aspect of our sport.
And that.
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