#3021  
Old 10-25-2020, 12:58 PM
txmxer txmxer is offline
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Originally Posted by DG_player View Post
It's more of a reality thing. Sweden has done as well the US, Spain, France, UK, and a lot of other countries that used severe lockdowns. If you're not going to do a good job, why not do the bad job that's least disruptive to the economy and people's lives?
I think this is a misnomer. The US responded to the virus basically during spring break across the country. I know in Texas, the school shutdown was announced while my son was on spring break.

Had the US not shut down, I can't help but think this country would have been in real trouble--the whole "flatten the curve" thing. There are a lot of reasons for this being different than Sweden. Seems to me they killed off a chunk of the most vulnerable part of the population early and the rest of the population is in general more healthy than the average person in the US. They took basic precautions voluntarily.

Had the US gone a similar route from a public policy standpoint, things could have been exponentially worse here. I don' t know that--nobody does, but I think it was a strong possibility.
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  #3022  
Old 10-25-2020, 01:44 PM
DG_player DG_player is offline
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I think this is a misnomer. The US responded to the virus basically during spring break across the country. I know in Texas, the school shutdown was announced while my son was on spring break.

Had the US not shut down, I can't help but think this country would have been in real trouble--the whole "flatten the curve" thing. There are a lot of reasons for this being different than Sweden. Seems to me they killed off a chunk of the most vulnerable part of the population early and the rest of the population is in general more healthy than the average person in the US. They took basic precautions voluntarily.

Had the US gone a similar route from a public policy standpoint, things could have been exponentially worse here. I don' t know that--nobody does, but I think it was a strong possibility.
I agree that shut downing certain segments of the economy was very important. Certainly restaurants bars large public venues and anywhere with prolonged close contact. However I question the value of shutting down every non public serving business, as well as closing every store and except walmart, target and home depot. My buddy is a landscaper. He was allowed to mow but not plant new flowers. Please explain to me the rationale behind that. I think they did a very poor job of comparing pandemic prevention value vs economic benefit.

Even now I question their rationale. There is this huge hangup on masks. Sure it would be great if everyone wore masks but the pandemic isn't being driven by maskless walmart shoppers. It's becoming increasingly clear that it's being spread by large super-spreader events that then percolate through households and seed new super spreader events. Not hanging out with your extended family and friends is vastly more important than wearing a mask when you go shopping. Yet outside of restrictions on public businesses where this can happen, I don't see any policies being put forth to stop this.

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  #3023  
Old 10-25-2020, 01:51 PM
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Jay Dub Jay Dub is offline
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My buddy is a landscaper. He was allowed to mow but not plant new flowers. Please explain to me the rationale behind that. I think they did a very poor job of comparing pandemic prevention value vs economic benefit.
Planting new flowers involve contact with a stream of people, at the time they were trying to keep contact with others to a minimum. Mowing can be accomplished without contact.
This was new for everyone, people were learning on the fly and trying the best with what information they had. I'm sure in hindsight we can easily find where things should have been done differently. Hindsight is, after all, 2020.

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  #3024  
Old 10-25-2020, 05:40 PM
MikeK MikeK is offline
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What do you think is going on? Virus has mutated to a much mess lethal form? Or the case counts in March/April/May were of magnitude times higher than they are now? More experience treating the disease? Combination of all three?

Could be just dumb luck. My point in bringing up Sweden is that a country that did little as far as lockdowns has death rates no worse than several countries that did lock down.

I’m not convinced that lockdowns have really done much to slow the spread, so I’d rather allow businesses to open and let customers decide for themselves if it’s safe to patronize them. If you’re high-risk, stay at home and let the low-risk enjoy our short time here on earth.
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  #3025  
Old 10-25-2020, 07:22 PM
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Am I dead yet? Guess I should be by now. But while we wait for me to keel over, let me just say, the teachers have the freedumb to find another job, as do the store clerks and everyone else.
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You make no sense. With your logic, why not let all the shopkeeps go out and start a new, smarter, economy proof business. With your logic, any impacted sector of the economy, should just exercise your "freedom of choice" and find new revenue streams. Why not let all the unemployed just go get available jobs.
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Could be just dumb luck. My point in bringing up Sweden is that a country that did little as far as lockdowns has death rates no worse than several countries that did lock down.

I’m not convinced that lockdowns have really done much to slow the spread, so I’d rather allow businesses to open and let customers decide for themselves if it’s safe to patronize them. If you’re high-risk, stay at home and let the low-risk enjoy our short time here on earth.
You are SO selfish and self centered, you cannot seem to formulate a reasonable opinion.

I am not sure how one can be "not convinced" that staying home, wearing a mask, keeping your distance and washing your hands does not slow the spread. You have some vastly different belief system? Because the science is pretty clear. Is your concern over shut downs, about the owners and employees of shut down industry? Doubtful. It is about your convenience....and sorry, given the number of people that would likely die, so you can go to the bar, restaurant or bowling alley, that is pathetic, IMO. If you try to tell me it IS about the people suffering, you could not believe the bolded above.

Sweden and US comparisons are apples and oranges. But, to prove a point, let's say you are correct. Then I think, if it took all these drastic measure to keep this country at the same level, how much worse and how many more would have died, if we had not shut down? Maybe Sweden is doing a much better job at masking, staying away from people, washing their hands and staying home? Maybe their economy is not flourishing? There could be TONS of reasons why Sweden is posting the numbers that they are.

Keeping high risk at home and letting the "low risk" go out is dumb. First, everyone is at the same risk of catching COVID, given the same behavior. The risk of DEATH is the only difference. So, all your selfish "low risk" folks then become asymptomatic carriers and get all your sheltered high risk folks dead.

What is so hard about a few months of tiny personal sacrifice, to save the lives of your fellow man?

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  #3026  
Old 10-25-2020, 07:38 PM
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Could be just dumb luck. My point in bringing up Sweden is that a country that did little as far as lockdowns has death rates no worse than several countries that did lock down.
.
I'm just going to address the first part...though I don't know why I bother, it's like talking to my drunk uncle at Christmas that only knows one thing and just keeps yelling it louder each time...

The biggest difference which was posted here by someone who has a friend/ psychiatrist(?) In Sweden... he said they essentially go on holiday from May thru August to the country etc... There is that! Among other differences...

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  #3027  
Old 10-25-2020, 07:57 PM
txmxer txmxer is offline
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I'm just going to address the first part...though I don't know why I bother, it's like talking to my drunk uncle at Christmas that only knows one thing and just keeps yelling it louder each time...

The biggest difference which was posted here by someone who has a friend/ psychiatrist(?) In Sweden... he said they essentially go on holiday from May thru August to the country etc... There is that! Among other differences...
Yes. Marc lived in the US for several years. He would say and has said that Sweden and the US are very different places.

Ultimately, I don’t think anyone believes there is a perfect response to such an unknown. Still, where we and pretty much everyone failed us being prepared for this event. It has always been known that a pandemic event is potentially on the horizon. But hey, that costs money to plan for.

We worry about hurricanes after billions of dollars in damage. We worry about wildfires after the fact. Lead pipes in the water supply. Terrorist. The list goes on.

The only thing we like to prepare for is yesterday’s crisis. And then, if it becomes a major economic windfall, it becomes critical. Think military industrial complex.

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  #3028  
Old 10-25-2020, 08:42 PM
mndiscg mndiscg is offline
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I am halfway through my quarantine period after testing positive for COVID last weekend. I developed a sore throat and loss of smell/taste on Friday afternoon/evening. Anybody have any questions?
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  #3029  
Old 10-25-2020, 08:47 PM
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I'm just going to address the first part...though I don't know why I bother, it's like talking to my drunk uncle at Christmas that only knows one thing and just keeps yelling it louder each time...

The biggest difference which was posted here by someone who has a friend/ psychiatrist(?) In Sweden... he said they essentially go on holiday from May thru August to the country etc... There is that! Among other differences...
Yep. When they talk about the Swedish response they shouldn't be able to cherry pick the freedom without the socialism.

I am interested in how Taiwan and Japan do economically. They both took pretty simple measures involving basic PPE, testing and tracing. Taiwan appears to have had less of a lockdown than many places so there GDP has hardly taken a hit. Taiwan had sent their CDC agents to Wuhan mid January and their reports were openly distributed and should have helped inform our response. So anything less than an effective response was a choice and not because we didn't know what we were dealing with.

Seems the big difference between us and them is that we've never embraced the social contract and instead want to vilify others to the point of taking action detrimental to our well being.

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  #3030  
Old 10-25-2020, 09:03 PM
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I am halfway through my quarantine period after testing positive for COVID last weekend. I developed a sore throat and loss of smell/taste on Friday afternoon/evening. Anybody have any questions?
First and foremost I hope you recover quickly and fully. If you care to answer, I would be interested to know:

1. Do you know how you were exposed?

2. Did the health department do contact tracing in a timely manner?

3. Were you treated medically, or have you been able to ride it out without treatment?

Thanks, and best wishes

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