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Old 09-04-2019, 10:22 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
So I'd still love to hear from ALL of you, how you feel about this topic. Nobody has responded to this.

This idea of loose arm or sling shot arm. I hear all sorts of descriptions of the arm and how it should be during a golf disc throw, but I realized I really don't have any idea how loose or firm it should be, especially when related to other sports. So I watch videos from pros I like every night now. And then I read tons of stuff on here as well all the time. And I keep hearing and reading about having a loose arm. But what does that mean, and how loose is "loose?"

I'm going to create this fictitious scale of 1-5 for the purposes of this question. 1 being a total noodle arm that's like jello and no conscious use of the arm to throw vs 5 which would be a totally flexed fairly firm arm that is being very controlled.

In golf, I would say the arms are around a 2 most of the backswing, then they probably move up to a 4 on the left arm at the hit, and the right arm a little less, maybe around 3.

Baseball, I would say the arms are around a 2-3 in the preswing and back swing. Then right around the hit, up to about a 4 again.

Throwing a baseball would be around a 2 before you throw and around 3ish at the throw.

And tennis would be similar to golf/baseball hit with the arm around a 2-3 pre hit, and around 4/4.5 at the hit.

So if you could use this scale, what would the arm be in Disc golf throwing?

I just realized a few days ago, I've never really asked specifically how loose or firm the arm should be at the different parts of the swing. And how much or little are you controlling it. I feel like it's supposed to be pretty loose and almost no arm for the majority, but at the same time somehow using your arm harder right at the hit? I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking. Thanks everyone
It just feels wrong trying to put numbers on things. BH is no different than other throwing sports, very similar to pitching sidearm/submarine, but mirrored. I used to pitch submarine so my FH is basically the same thing and fairly loose. When I just started mirroring everything from FH, my BH become so much easier which is why perpetual motion drills are so effective IMO. You will see me flip back and forth BH/FH in some of my drills like it's nothing because it is. The tension is kind of reactionary to the acceleration. The string on the ball is pulled taut, but is still supple. Loose is fast and on the verge of out of control. The key being the bounce/spring of the wrist slinging the disc out.
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  #302  
Old 09-05-2019, 12:58 AM
RandyC RandyC is online now
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Disc golf is a funny thing. I remember when I started I threw everyday for 4 months in a row and suddenly my arm fell off, I mean.. It hurt so bad I could not pick up a disc. Yet I had planned in advance to go to this monster course the next day, my arm felt bit better the next day so I went with an idea that Ill just swing the disc without stressing my arm at all.. I figured Ill throw 150ft shots all day. Boom I broke 400ft with my first throw. Thats how I learned to use my whole body to sling the disc, it took few years to get consistant with that 400ft. Currently I can get to 500ft but still figuring out, how can I get that with proper control.

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  #303  
Old 09-05-2019, 09:58 AM
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Thank you guys! That helps A LOT. I'm not sure it if will help me throw better right now, but at least knowing how my arm should be helps out. I had NO idea how it was supposed to be. I think I need to just go work on stuff for a long time before asking loads more questions. I've received a lot of good advice here and in my DM box, so I have a lot of stuff to work out now. Can't thank everyone enough!
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  #304  
Old 09-16-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
I would say that in a disc golf drive, through the arm extension/hit point phase my right arm feels similar strength to my lead arm in a golf club swing. In that I'm firmly guiding it through contact but not tensing it up terribly so. Keep in mind that I'm not and never was an incredible golfer but I first swung clubs when I was 4 and took lessons when I was young, so I had a solid enough foundation until I stopped playing in my early teens.

Basically the arm feels extended and firm, not fully tensed up but not just loose and being pulled like nothing.

In the backswing I am just having enough control that I'm aware of the arm. Again kind of like lead arm in a batting stance, where you're balancing and aware of the bat but not tensed at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
It just feels wrong trying to put numbers on things. BH is no different than other throwing sports, very similar to pitching sidearm/submarine, but mirrored. I used to pitch submarine so my FH is basically the same thing and fairly loose. When I just started mirroring everything from FH, my BH become so much easier which is why perpetual motion drills are so effective IMO. You will see me flip back and forth BH/FH in some of my drills like it's nothing because it is. The tension is kind of reactionary to the acceleration. The string on the ball is pulled taut, but is still supple. Loose is fast and on the verge of out of control. The key being the bounce/spring of the wrist slinging the disc out.
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Originally Posted by RandyC View Post
Disc golf is a funny thing. I remember when I started I threw everyday for 4 months in a row and suddenly my arm fell off, I mean.. It hurt so bad I could not pick up a disc. Yet I had planned in advance to go to this monster course the next day, my arm felt bit better the next day so I went with an idea that Ill just swing the disc without stressing my arm at all.. I figured Ill throw 150ft shots all day. Boom I broke 400ft with my first throw. Thats how I learned to use my whole body to sling the disc, it took few years to get consistant with that 400ft. Currently I can get to 500ft but still figuring out, how can I get that with proper control.
So I just re read an article I'm 90% sure I read a LONG time ago when I first got into this sport. And it confirmed what I have been thinking lately and directly in contrast to what these answers are saying. This article is from someone name JHern and it's an old old post from 2010 I thin on the old DG course review site. And he is literally saying what I've been wondering and thinking about how the arm is mostly passive in the swing.

"Fact 1: 300 ft is about as far as most men can throw using primarily the strength of their arm to propel the disc. For women it is closer to 230 ft.

Fact 2: The fact that you get the same distance no matter how you do your step implies that you aren't getting anything out of your legs, which drive your torso, which is the platform for your shoulders...

The sum: Fact 1 + Fact 2 = You're strong-arming, throwing with your arm, and you're not getting much of anything from your torso and shoulders.

Your arm is of order 10X less powerful than your legs/torso. Stop throwing with your arm! Your arm is only useful for positioning and gripping, other than that, it is purely passive. Your arm needs to be turned into a whip that is driven by the powerful motion of your legs/hips/torso/shoulders.

Here's an exercise I might suggest:

Stand still with your arms at your side, completely relaxed. Turn your hips and torso back slowly and then rotate your hips quickly to the open position. Your arms should be whipped out and around in a windmill motion, without you using a single muscle in your arms. That's the feeling you should be aiming for.

Next do the same thing, except extend your throwing elbow out sideways from your body and hold it there (as if you put a vice around your shoulder). Allow your lower throwing arm and hand to hang limp from your elbow. Do it as if your arm were asleep and some mechanical device was locked onto your shoulder to keep the elbow pointed out side ways from your torso. Don't allow your elbow to move forward or backward, nor up nor down. It is completely locked in place, as if you no longer even had a shoulder joint and your upper arm were fused into your shoulder so that it would always point out sideways.

Now slowly turn your hips and torso back, and turn them abruptly open again. Don't use a single muscle in your arm! Now you should find that you've turned your arm into a whip. Your lower arm should be whipping forward super-fast. In fact, you can whip your lower arm forward way faster in this manner than your arm muscles could ever dream of doing. Your arm muscle strength decreases rapidly as speed increases, so they are useless anyways...trying to use them will only slow down this motion. You'll find that whipping your lower arm forward in this manner, with the elbow "stopped," will feel relatively effortless in comparison to trying to throw with your arm as you've probably been doing before.

Practice getting this feeling for a while. (Later you can work on the grip and positioning in finer detail, but for now focus on using your legs/hips/torso/shoulders as the powerful motor for whipping your arm forward.)"


So how would you guys respond to this post? It sounds COMPLETELY different than anything I've read on here and nobody has replied to my question about this topic with this response. You guys are saying my arm should be fairly firm but loose like in a golf swing, tennis swing, baseball throw. And yet this guy here is saying, literally, keep your arm like a dead noodle and let your legs and body WHIP your arm through. So is this guy wrong? Or is he right? And why such a stark contrast between what he's saying and what you guys have told me? I once again am at a loss for how my arm is supposed to be being used and how it feels when throwing. And I go back to HUB's water bottle drill idea lately and wondering if that idea and this JHern's post are the same?

And another thing that caught my attention is that last little bit from you SW. "The key being the bounce/spring of the wrist slinging the disc out." What does that mean? I thought the wrist was supposed to be stiff and passive, and yet here, it sounds like you are saying it is VERY active and THE KEY to throwing far and slinging the disc. So once again, I feel lost and confused. Should my wrist be bent back in towards my body when the disc gets near the "power pocket" from the force of disc getting heavy? Or is it a purposeful motion I make while I'm pulling the disc in towards my chest? And I'm trying to resist it, but it's too strong and it bows my wrist back anyways? And then right as it gets near release, it springs out and away from me?

This goes back to my idea I just brought up recently about a LOT of longer throwers that look like they actually curl the disc in towards their body right before it gets slung out. So they curl it up into their belly at the start, then their wrist gets pulled taught as their plant foot lands and their arm gets pulled back. But then as they pull the disc in towards their chest, I notice quite a few longer throwers look like they then curl the disc AGAIN in towards their body right as the disc is about to get whipped out. What is that? Here is a few photos of the swing the frame RIGHT before the disc is far away from their body. And it's VERY noticeable how bowed/curled in their wrist is. Thanks

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Old 09-16-2019, 11:43 AM
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And here's even more in that thread from another confused person just like myself.

I have a question though. There is a conflict in my head. MB says from the right pec go like hell and punch toward the target. Bradley says once the disc is coming away from the right pec and into the "apex" accelerate and sling the head of the hammer. With JHern it is sling the forearm out with the power created from the lower body and leave my arm muscles out of the equation. To make matters worse there is a post by Blake where he says don't accelerate the arm until the very last second.

Same thing goes for me. I read ALL sorts of varying ideas on this arm being dead like a noodle or not, and accelerating the arm at certain points or not and just letting your momentum you've already made sling the disc. I don't know which idea/s is right? It's all tied together. This idea of getting the disc to feel heavy and SLING it out or WHIP it out. NOT using your arm/rotator cuff muscles to THROW the disc, and instead let your body provide the power and let your arm sling it out. I know these ideas are THE reason why I can't throw far, and once I figure it out, I WILL throw far. All the other balance and timing stuff is just icing on the distance cake. Once I get this part down, I'll be throwing very far. And any further distance increases will be small and incremental But that IS the problem. I can't figure this out, and I read SOOO many posts and ideas about this, and yet, nothing is working yet. Or at the very least, I haven't figured out how to do them correctly. And I don't want to waste time doing things incorrectly. So I'm asking for help ONLY on this topic and how to accomplish this. Thanks

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Old 09-16-2019, 01:51 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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Nothing is in contrast here. You are WAYYY overthinking things. I'm not sure how many times I or others have responded in exactly the same manner to this exact question.

YES THE ARM ACTS LIKE A WHIP!

The inward bend of the wrist is passive and due to lag. Backhand = passive wrist; Forehand = active wrist.

The momentum of the disc + not keeping your wrist stiff will collapse the wrist naturally before it redirects outward.

Swing a damn hammer around and post a video. There's no way on paper to say exactly what happens, but the brain is, to quote Sean Clement, "a gravity flipping genius". You can feel how to sling the weight. You'll never be able to throw a disc if you think, "Ok, first I tense my lats, then .063s later I will fire my triceps, etc." Just like pumping a swing on a swingset like a kid, you gotta just feel it. Let gravity/momentum do its thing and see how you can add to it.
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Old 09-16-2019, 03:01 PM
NoseDownKing NoseDownKing is online now
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Just swing the ****ing disc. It really is that simple once you get it right.

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  #308  
Old 09-16-2019, 06:15 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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It's really hard to respond to your wall of text that contain about a thousand questions.

I think "COMPLETELY different" is only in the state of your own mind.
Olympic Hammer Throw Drill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2eWfwpahfk#t=50s
Reciprocating Dingle Arm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1pkfJtVq-8

IMO MB, BW, and Blake are all basically saying the same thing there, just their brain processes/feels things slightly differently or slower or faster. Like UN said, this is all taking place in the blink of an eye, much faster than your brain can process. If you say you want to fire right now, it's already too late, cause there is a delay in your nervous system.

Most every top pro say to keep the wrist locked straight or slightly flexed/cocked and let acceleration/change of direction lag the wrist and load back like a spring. I think some grips with the thumb closer to the middle of the disc make it appear like the wrist is curled more, or that tends to naturally curl the wrist more. Force dissipates over distance, so more compact wrist motion transfers force more efficiently, the wrist doesn't generate power, it facilitates the transfer from the body to the disc. Do you think about your wrist when you hammer a nail or throw a baseball? Is it stiff or loose or is a combination like passive-aggressive. I think Drew states it quite well with the wrist action... https://www.youtube.com/watch?=6&v=wstfsTWvGFQ

I think you need to work on your mental attitude...
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=134975

How much wrist curl do you see here?




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