#21  
Old 01-22-2016, 05:26 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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To add something more along what you wanted to talk about...speed stable and mold stable are two different things. For example the Vulcan is an under stable mold, but if thrown shorter than 330-350 let's say, it may be straight to fade. At under 300 it may start fading early in the flight. It is acting speed stable, because you are not getting into it's HSS portion of flight and its LSS is kickin in sooner than you want. At 400 it may turn over from hyzer and glide right its entire flight, and not fade until the very end.

Now a mold over stable disc, say a firebird, will act overstable if thrown 30mph or 70mph. Even though it's speed rating is lower than the Vulcan, it's inherent design is to fly overstable no matter what. For a beginner the Vulcan and Firebird may do almost the exact same thing, but for an advanced player you couldn't have more opposite discs.

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Last edited by slowplastic; 01-22-2016 at 05:30 PM.
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  #22  
Old 01-23-2016, 12:11 AM
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zendragon zendragon is offline
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I have to jump on this just to beg you to consider talking about what you don't want to talk about. I was very much in the same boat as you. I was throwing my Rivers 250-300 with a really funky 2 finger grip and a throw that was all arm, no technique. It was all over the place though. I started just trying to figure it out, watching some form videos, but all out of order, without learning the basics from the ground up. I started turning over Bosses, but they were only going 300' still. My point to this is, you can have terrible form and turn over way too fast, stable discs, and they won't match their flight numbers and none of it will make sense, or, you can forget about the discs for awhile, focus on the form, and everything will fly like it should.
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  #23  
Old 01-23-2016, 12:41 AM
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hugheshilton hugheshilton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zendragon View Post
I have to jump on this just to beg you to consider talking about what you don't want to talk about. I was very much in the same boat as you. I was throwing my Rivers 250-300 with a really funky 2 finger grip and a throw that was all arm, no technique. It was all over the place though. I started just trying to figure it out, watching some form videos, but all out of order, without learning the basics from the ground up. I started turning over Bosses, but they were only going 300' still. My point to this is, you can have terrible form and turn over way too fast, stable discs, and they won't match their flight numbers and none of it will make sense, or, you can forget about the discs for awhile, focus on the form, and everything will fly like it should.
Yep! After I had been playing about 2 years, I completely plateaued maxing out at about 350 feet with really bad form. I was throwing very overstable discs to compensate for how much OAT was in my release, which led to unpredictable results and no real increase in distance. Then I spent like 6 months dialing back my speed, throwing more slowly and deliberately with slower, more understable discs until I was pushing Valkyries out past where I had been throwing Bosses before with more consistency. Then I slowly started increasing the speed of my throws and my disc selection until I noticed that my old Star Destroyer was my best, most consistent distance driver, at which point I weeded the other distance drivers from my bag and became a Destroyer nut. And there you have it: the path to becoming a Destroyer nut all laid out for you. ;-)
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  #24  
Old 01-23-2016, 08:12 AM
Sorg67 Sorg67 is offline
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Yes, I think I am doing this. I like to throw stable discs with anhyzer and make them "SI". I had a really hard time throwing hyzers. I am getting better. I throw the furthest in my regular group. So I have not been pushed.

I am working on my technique as well. But I got so tied up in mechanics playing golf that it became more work than play. I want to experiment with my technique and develop my own game my own way. Perhaps that will limit my progress, but I would rather have a feel game that I fully understand and have fun playing than have a better game that is mechanical and methodical and less fun.

Going to start playing in a handicap group and will be pushed a bit more. Maybe I should go back to my Lat 64 Diamond. Not going to mess with technique much before my tournament in February. Maybe work on some changes after that.
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  #25  
Old 05-28-2019, 11:57 PM
RunnerUp RunnerUp is offline
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Originally Posted by Sorg67 View Post
Yes, that is what I was thinking. Vulcan is 13 5 -4 2. Let's say I got that in a light weight and threw it at 9 speed, would it behave more like 9 5 -1 2?

Or would it just not perform since I am trying to make it do something it is not designed to do?

It seems more speed creates less stability. So what is the difference between a high speed understable disc and a low speed stable disc?

Maybe I will give the Vulcan a try and see if I can figure it out for myself.
I've enjoyed this thread so far!

Your initial question (which I took as "is the flight rating of a disc dependent on hitting the speed of the first number in the set") is one I've thought of myself recently (getting back into the sport after a long break). I love the Wraith so I thought a Boss, being a faster rated disc, would buy me more distance... but in fact the Boss (with similar turn and fade numbers) is uselessly overstable for me because I can't get it up to speed and see any flight characteristics other than "turn left right away" as a right-handed backhand throw.

My post was in response to your assertion that "more speed creates less stability", which I agree with, and the question "what is the difference between a high speed understable disc and a low speed stable disc".

If you're throwing both of them "firm" my answer would be just the speed, which equates to distance. The flight paths might be similar, but the high speed disc would go further (assuming the high speed disc gets flat and the low speed does as well, perhaps even some "S" shape to the path).

If you're throwing them both "soft" I'd say the low speed disc might travel further, since the high speed disc may not even get up to speed to develop its understability.

If you're really cranking both of them, the understable driver should hold an anhyser line a long way with (hopefully) and little fade of some kind at the end. The slower stable disc will reach its distance limit at some point, even if thrown perfectly, because it won't be traveling fast enough to pick up distance while it glides. If thrown too "fast" it will flip and anhyser, cutting down even more on distance.

Hope that helps. I've enjoyed your interest!
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  #26  
Old 05-28-2019, 11:59 PM
RunnerUp RunnerUp is offline
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Originally Posted by RunnerUp View Post
I've enjoyed this thread so far!

Your initial question (which I took as "is the flight rating of a disc dependent on hitting the speed of the first number in the set") is one I've thought of myself recently (getting back into the sport after a long break). I love the Wraith so I thought a Boss, being a faster rated disc, would buy me more distance... but in fact the Boss (with similar turn and fade numbers) is uselessly overstable for me because I can't get it up to speed and see any flight characteristics other than "turn left right away" as a right-handed backhand throw.

My post was in response to your assertion that "more speed creates less stability", which I agree with, and the question "what is the difference between a high speed understable disc and a low speed stable disc".

If you're throwing both of them "firm" my answer would be just the speed, which equates to distance. The flight paths might be similar, but the high speed disc would go further (assuming the high speed disc gets flat and the low speed does as well, perhaps even some "S" shape to the path).

If you're throwing them both "soft" I'd say the low speed disc might travel further, since the high speed disc may not even get up to speed to develop its understability.

If you're really cranking both of them, the understable driver should hold an anhyser line a long way with (hopefully) and little fade of some kind at the end. The slower stable disc will reach its distance limit at some point, even if thrown perfectly, because it won't be traveling fast enough to pick up distance while it glides. If thrown too "fast" it will flip and anhyser, cutting down even more on distance.

Hope that helps. I've enjoyed your interest!
Oh, and the big difference between the two would be the skip at the end of flight. The faster disc will skip way more, making the slower disc desirable for a shorter shot
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  #27  
Old 05-29-2019, 12:10 AM
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Hampstead Hampstead is online now
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Faster discs with same stability will amplify stability if you can't get them up to speed.
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