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Old 12-04-2018, 08:28 PM
Frisbees Frisbees is offline
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Greetings everyone, I am new to the forums. Love the site and all that it has to offer, it has helped find great courses to play for sure!

I am absolutely having a blast disc golfing, and want to improve my form to be able to be a little more competitive in the league in my town. I know that I have some fundamental problems with my form, but I can't quite put my finger on what's plaguing it (although from looking at film of myself I can see some glaring things already to work on!)

I am humbly asking all the disc wizards here for guidance, so that I may have more enjoyment, and provide better enjoyment for the people I play with. I want to be able prioritize what the most important things I should fix are, and get a good solid foundation to improve upon.

I have watched a lot of videos here and there (I've followed the beato drill and repeated it many many times), and tried to figure out the throw in the past couple of months. I can throw the disc accurately from a standstill, and have tried to incorporate an "x-step" to engage my hips. I think there is a disconnect here as I don't throw any further often. I cap out at around 350 feet, sometimes they go further to about 380, but I've never thrown to 400. I have measured the short pin on the field I practice on with a measuring reel, (hole 1 at a local course when no one is around) and I try to throw to or past that pin for reference (370 feet).

I took some video today after frustrating fieldwork (I realize I need feedback at this point), and I wish I did so AFTER reading the stick'd post on this group rather than before. I apologize for my shoddy camera work, I hope this is sufficient enough to point out some glaringly obvious things to me for now. I will take some more video, with better angles within the week and post those (I'll buy a tripod too, discs don't make a great stand turns out!)

Side:
https://youtu.be/uJurVNrUi3w
Side SLOW:
https://youtu.be/t12JtXr6JQg

Front:
https://youtu.be/rK300_K_hX4
Front SLOW:
https://youtu.be/FNBfDNtm9bI

Back (worst video here, camera fell at one point, not even a good angle anyway
https://youtu.be/_3ZReLea23Q
Back SLOW:
https://youtu.be/WZPHhD1DkdA


The most obvious thing to me right away I realized is I am raising my arm in my reach back, and this is swooping down before coming back level in my release. Hard to be consistent like that for sure.

Thanks in advance for anyone offering advice or reading my post! Lay it on me, I have thick skin!
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  #2  
Old 12-04-2018, 08:51 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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I'm going to recommend a couple of feel type drills, as well as the one leg drill for balance. Right now your starting position, backswing/load, and forward movement are done by you moving your arm and the disc where you think they should go rather than by having a continued connection through your shoulders and body. Think someone copying where a golf club should go during a swing by looking at still frames of other golfers, rather than feeling how to backswing and forward swing the club in leverage.

The hammer X-step video shows how to move in sync with a pre-swing, as the hammer is heavy and connected to your arm, and will toss you around if you do it incorrectly. The second hammer video shows a bunch of different motions, I really like the elephant walk drill at 4:40 in that video as it shows you how to connect the backswing and forward swing while in your natural walking movement rather than having your mind concentrate on an X-step or throw or any other weird goals.

Also the one leg drill should be something for you to focus on. You're not getting onto your front leg in balance, you're to the left of the hip and kind of jammed instead of landing on your hip more neutral as you would when walking or squatting. If you don't know how the end goal of your balance should be, then no matter what you correct in the X-step beforehand, it's going to be tough to end up in the right place.






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Last edited by slowplastic; 12-04-2018 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:53 PM
Frisbees Frisbees is offline
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Thank you so much for the feedback so far. I took the time to work on the seabass22 drills you posted. You were right about the hammer drill, after doing the perpetual motion swing for a bit and trying to tie it into a walk, it showed me that something was definitely off. I could immediately feel that something wasn't right when trying to even start a walk-up. I spent a few hours with the hammer in a field, and worked on throwing from a standstill also. I'm wondering if I should make a film of me doing those to see if I am doing them correctly?

I took some new footage, I bought a tripod to film with now and this time I took the time to learn a bit about the video editor. Now I have a cut of each shot with a slowmotion of the same shot, and cut it down to just one throw. I had a side view also, but it unfortunately got corrupted as I didn't realize I ran out of space while doing that part! I'll have to try again next time. Here is what I have so far:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m4ucaaLsso

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKS0soDNYYM


I'll keep working on the standstill one leg drill, and trying to set myself up to have good balance at the brace, as you're right I am tending to come over the top of it and past, or behind it and fall to the side. On a positive note I threw a disc farther than ever today with my backhand! It went around 25-30 feet past the basket.

Last edited by Frisbees; 12-07-2018 at 08:56 PM. Reason: youtube links are breaking when trying to embed
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:12 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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I like the backswing action, but you are crouching in it and swinging back too early before you plant the left foot. Extend your legs in the backswing and stand tall so you can turn further back and drop into the plant. You start dropping in the backswing and rise into the plant.

When you start the forward swing your arm is lagging/slacking too far behind your torso. The arm/disc get caught behind your body turn so you end up hugging yourself or rounding. Need to maintain a taut/wide upper arm to your torso turning, like a ball on string.

Record drills. They don't work if you do them wrong.

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Old 12-07-2018, 11:55 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Yeah I agree that I'm liking the backswing way more now, and also that you should record the drills as it's way harder to do them right without guidance. It seems to take everyone, myself included, some feedback loops to get them more correct.

A general thing to think about and re-evaluate your throw with this knowledge for yourself:
-you need to have your centre of mass on top of a balance point dynamically to be balanced
-so in standstill/one leg your mass is over a leg
-in X-step your mass has to be inside of your stance/instep so that you can leverage yourself forward or catch yourself into the brace, and also overtop of the foot heel-toe wise so that you are balanced over the foot.

If you look at your first step, your left foot moves like 1' to the left of your body mass so you now have to almost "pull" your body forward to where your foot already is...while essentially waiting to get there before you can do anything. Once your right foot is down on the ground, if you draw a line straight down from your navel or mass centre it is behind your heel so not balanced. Now it's the left step in behind X-step and this looks pretty decent to me, except you are turned back, before the foot is down so you aren't loading back/backswinging on the leg in balance, you are turned back with no leverage to turn back into...kind of "pre-rotated" back. Your final right foot/plant step is then a bit too leftward and I think that's why you don't get all the way onto the plant leg and your rear foot kind of drags sideways on the ground for a bit. You also may want to concentrate on leaving/leveraging off the instep a bit more so that the knee doesn't get locked out.

So in general less foot offset and keep them more underneath you with less squatting. Really try to be aware of being in balance at every point during the X-step and/or backswing, all of this matters if you're trying to push past 400'.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:26 PM
Frisbees Frisbees is offline
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Alrighty, I took the time to try and work on the things you guys have given me. I took some footage of myself doing the hammer drills, a few standstill, a few trying to tie in an xstep.

I'm trying to be aware of my hip positions when I do these, and trying to swing loose and free, almost without using the arm. My biggest trouble right now is trying to maintain balance when moving into and out of the xstep, I think I just need a lot of practice doing this more and breaking habits since I am not used to trying to stand so upright while moving into the throw.

Hammer from standstill:


Hammer different views, some standstill some xstep:


Along with the drills I tried throwing some discs with your advice of trying to be a bit more compact and upright, trying to avoid crouching. It's painfully obvious to me I have no balance doing this, I'm not sure if maybe I am going too slow, or if I just need to do more standstills and get used to it. The first throw felt the worst, and my foot offset was very large, the last throw felt very smooth and easy, it felt much better lower body wise. I didn't focus on distance or accuracy, just delivering smooth and consistently

4 throws, progressively trying to improve stance:


It feels very strange timing wise, any advice for timing when using a disc? With a hammer it is immediately noticeable since it is heavier, with a disc I am not sure how to signal to myself that I am in time. The arm pump during the "x" seems to help, but I don't want to develop bad habits. Am I supposed to take a certain amount of steps? Or just 3 and only 3 is correct? This may be unrelated completely but in bowling I like a 5 step delivery and the consensus is 4 or 5 are both fine. The extra step simply helps signal mentally for me. Any tips for the xstep in this regard?

Thanks again for the feedback, very much appreciate your time guys.

Last edited by Frisbees; 12-09-2018 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:41 PM
Frisbees Frisbees is offline
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For some reason I can't edit the post, but the last throw (throw 4) in video 3 is at 2:50. Also, I apologize, some of the video footage dropped out when I uploaded it to YT. Interesting that the audio is still there.
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Old 12-09-2018, 09:12 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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First of all when I see you in the one leg setup from the side view, you are not overtop of your leg...as in to the front of the teepad. If you draw a line straight up from your foot, your head should be on top of your leg.

Instead, you are balancing your throwing shoulder overtop of your foot, so your head and spine have to do weird things to stay upright. Also you can see your plant leg knee buckling back in the backswing.

So first if all, try to stand up on the plant leg, straight up so that your head is balanced over the foot and your throwing shoulder is in front of the foot. It will feel maybe crazy like how can you balance with the throwing shoulder already past the brace? But your rear arm will extend back behind you and your rear leg will extend back behind you when your right/throwing arm extends forward, so your mass is still balanced overtop of your foot. Then during a throw, the leg will kind of swing back/counter also when the arm releases.

To make sure you're in balance, when you stand upright with your arm out on one leg, your rear leg when off the ground should rotate with you on the opposite side like a rudder. Currently your rear leg is staying in the same place in space but rotating on its own axis...so the location of its mass isn't changing even though your arm is swinging to different places...clearly it's not counterweighting you to maintain your balance.

For the X-step with the hammer feel free to add a slight forward step with the plant foot initially to help before the forward pump. I then like how you wait for the left leg to touch down before swinging back, but you do move the left leg early. But then if you try to think about the same timing when you watch your final plant step and forward swing...well you swing forward way sooner relative to the foot. Instead of waiting for the plant leg to land before any forward swing, to balance the forward swing, you're thinking "forward" before it's on the ground.

I made this video for another thread but it goes over some of these things. Watch how I emphasize how I plant before a swing in either direction, and also you can see how my rear leg rotates with me when I'm in the one leg drill setup near the end of the video.



https://vimeo.com/304193684^^^^^^LINK
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Old 12-10-2018, 04:36 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Like SP was saying, you aren't balanced on your front leg, need to extend your front leg upright with head stacked/balanced on it, you appear to be keeping too much bend in knee and hip and head behind the foot. You can see how much more swing extension I get in the 2nd set below with my arm almost inline with shoulders so I'm very wide almost 180 degrees. Your shoulders have rotated more and arm is collapsed to almost 90 degrees.


In the behind tee view of the hammer toss/one leg, your CoG is too far over the toes with your knee too bent. You need to get your shin vertical and shift your CoG to the right diagonally in the backswing to the rear foot to get out of the way of the backswing. So your left heel should come down on the ground to support the backswing like a kickstand on a bike.

Note how you are leaning back behind your heels and having to swing the disc out around you and your front shoulder is higher than left shoulder so there's no pendulum action. Note how my body is in athletic stacked position getting ready to squat a bunch of weight, my balance is leaning forward toward toes with shoulders stacked over knees, so my butt is out of the way for the shoulder/arm/disc to swing straight back through underneath me like a pendulum. You are hooking your swing quite a bit, the disc disappears in front of your body toward right teepad side, instead of extending is wider away to the left tee pad side.

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Old 01-02-2019, 07:18 PM
Frisbees Frisbees is offline
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Any tips for promoting balance and stacking on the right leg? I'm having trouble with this. I am now setting up balanced on one leg and stacked, but find that when I actually swing through I am still stacking my right shoulder over my foot instead of my head.

I think it may be just an ingrained habit to try to break, I'll keep working on it more slowly. I think my problem is I am subconsciously trying to keep my left foot in the same position, and need to let it be more dynamic and trust that I won't fall over.

For the hugging problem and hooking my shots, I've tried to focus on being very aware to let the disc come away from me rather than behind me. I took film of this, but am unsure if I am swinging in this manner is correctly. I swing away, but it ends up still slightly behind me when I am rotating through since I am trying to keep my arm loose and let it swing rather than me actively muscling it. Is this natural, or am I supposed to actively think about punching my elbow forward?

Here:

Last edited by Frisbees; 01-02-2019 at 07:21 PM.
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