#21  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:55 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Lots of "best practices" in course design don't require a waiver.
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  #22  
Old 10-01-2019, 01:37 PM
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Doofenshmirtz Doofenshmirtz is offline
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Just as a follow up, I attended the tournament and the TD actually made additional rules including that any OB throw would require a re-throw from a designated drop zone (later clarified to be only tee shots), in this case the red tees for that the hole. This applied to all holes with red tees. I assume that this is a no no that would not be approved, but maybe not?

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  #23  
Old 10-01-2019, 01:43 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
Just as a follow up, I attended the tournament and the TD actually made additional rules including that any OB throw would require a re-throw from a designated drop zone (later clarified to be only tee shots), in this case the red tees for that the hole. This applied to all holes with red tees. I assume that this is a no no that would not be approved, but maybe not?
No reason it would not be approved, IMO. Drop zones in general are encouraged. The rules dictating needing approval for limiting OB options are more aimed at forced throw and distance, which has a greater tendency to impact scoring.

Personally, I'd rather see every OB area have a drop zone instead of allowing lies to be marked at the last in-bounds point. Less guesswork, more equality.
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  #24  
Old 10-02-2019, 07:42 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Personally, I'd rather see every OB area have a drop zone instead of allowing lies to be marked at the last in-bounds point. Less guesswork, more equality.
That's tricky on a hole where OB runs all the way down one side of the fairway. We have a 700' hole with water from about 200' to 660'. Your drive could go in early. Your approach on your third shot could go in 40' from the basket. Hard to have one drop zone to cover that. With multiple drop zones, you're back to determining where it went in, to decide which drop zone applies.

The rules now have an option for the next lie to be the closest inbounds to where the disc came to rest. Doesn't help much on a pond, but does on other OB. I haven't seen this used, yet, but it would involve less guesswork.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:43 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
Just as a follow up, I attended the tournament and the TD actually made additional rules including that any OB throw would require a re-throw from a designated drop zone (later clarified to be only tee shots), in this case the red tees for that the hole. This applied to all holes with red tees. I assume that this is a no no that would not be approved, but maybe not?
My understanding is that it would probably be improved, since it involves players moving forward instead of rethrowing. Though that might depend on where the red tee is, and perhaps other factors.
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  #26  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:28 AM
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Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
The rules now have an option for the next lie to be the closest inbounds to where the disc came to rest. Doesn't help much on a pond, but does on other OB. I haven't seen this used, yet, but it would involve less guesswork.
The runway hole at Flyboy used this OB "new lie marking" option (although it was not allowed during PDGA events) before it became a PDGA rule book option.
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:59 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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Personally, I'd rather see every OB area have a drop zone instead of allowing lies to be marked at the last in-bounds point.
That reduces every OB area to a single fixed outcome, with just one shot to learn to recover. It kind of abandons the 'play it where it lies' principle all together.

Quote:
Less guesswork, more equality.
Should there be equality here? Not all shots that go OB are equal.


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  #28  
Old 10-02-2019, 11:38 AM
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krupicka krupicka is offline
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Originally Posted by cheesethin View Post
That reduces every OB area to a single fixed outcome, with just one shot to learn to recover. It kind of abandons the 'play it where it lies' principle all together.

Should there be equality here? Not all shots that go OB are equal.


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It really depends on the hole design. On some holes, the last place in bounds can be hard to determine and where the last place in bounds was matters greatly on the next throw. Having a consistent drop zone removes that judgement call.

On the other hand, where a player decides to risk OB (early in flight vs late in flight) is a calculus that I think players should need to make when deciding how to attack a hole. This is also a reason why I don't like nearest place in bounds as an option as it removes that calculus.

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  #29  
Old 10-02-2019, 12:16 PM
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Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
On the other hand, where a player decides to risk OB (early in flight vs late in flight) is a calculus that I think players should need to make when deciding how to attack a hole. This is also a reason why I don't like nearest place in bounds as an option as it removes that calculus.
This type of calculus is regularly "unfair" due to the difference in spin dominance for each player. Lefties may be "forced" to throw out over OB right away and righties primarily risk going OB at the end of the flight. Allowing players to mark "nearest place inbounds" balances this while allowing players to make their best throw attempt.

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  #30  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:03 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
This type of calculus is regularly "unfair" due to the difference in spin dominance for each player. Lefties may be "forced" to throw out over OB right away and righties primarily risk going OB at the end of the flight. Allowing players to mark "nearest place inbounds" balances this while allowing players to make their best throw attempt.
Not unfair at all. Throwing both spins is a skill and those who learn how should be rewarded.

To the broader point, none of drop zone/last point in bounds/nearest to disc/rethrow without penalty/Relief Area are the "best" way for all situations. Choose wisely.

(But NEVER choose Hazard. That's just stupid.)

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