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Old 09-24-2014, 03:53 PM
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Martin Dewgarita Martin Dewgarita is online now
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Default Throwing with crutches?

Somewhat arbitrary discussion I suppose, as I don't ever plan on playing competitively in this state. But it's a question that has entered my mind while I'm out there on the course tossing around.

I assume my crutch is a supporting point. When does it become a supporting point? Do I have to put some of my weight on it? If it's just leaning on me, is it still considered a supporting point? Is there any time that the tip of my crutch could be ahead of my lie? For example if I just set it down on the ground and it's not touching me, then it could extend in front of my lie. What if it's touching me? Could I then use it to extend my stance, ie. lay the crutch on the ground so that it is touching my lie and touching my foot, I could in theory stand like 4 feet left of my lie.
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Old 09-24-2014, 04:01 PM
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bradharris bradharris is offline
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Definition of a Supporting Point: At the time of release, any part of a player's body that is in contact with the playing surface or some other object that provides support.

So the foot of the crutch is not considered a supporting point. The point where your body weight rests on the crutch is.
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Old 09-24-2014, 04:10 PM
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Martin Dewgarita Martin Dewgarita is online now
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So my shoe isn't the supporting point, it's my toes inside my shoe? Interesting...

So the foot of my crutch can be ahead of my lie even if I'm leaning into it while my foot is at the lie?
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Old 09-24-2014, 04:21 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Dewgarita View Post
Somewhat arbitrary discussion I suppose, as I don't ever plan on playing competitively in this state. But it's a question that has entered my mind while I'm out there on the course tossing around.

I assume my crutch is a supporting point. When does it become a supporting point? Do I have to put some of my weight on it? If it's just leaning on me, is it still considered a supporting point? Is there any time that the tip of my crutch could be ahead of my lie? For example if I just set it down on the ground and it's not touching me, then it could extend in front of my lie. What if it's touching me? Could I then use it to extend my stance, ie. lay the crutch on the ground so that it is touching my lie and touching my foot, I could in theory stand like 4 feet left of my lie.
It isn't a supporting point. It's an artificial device (though I think it falls under the medical item exception to the rule barring artificial devices).

If you're not touching it, it shouldn't matter where it is. Only exception would be that I don't believe you could set it against something in front of your lie such that it weighs down or moves that something out of your throwing line. I'm picturing leaning it against some branches so that the branches are forced out of your throwing line.

You don't get to use it as an extension of your stance/lie. Aside from the fact that it isn't a part of your body that can be used as a legal supporting point in accordance with the rules, I think using it as such would render it an illegal artificial device (one that directly assists in making a throw by allowing you a wider stance).

As far as it making contact with the playing surface in front of your lie while you are throwing, like Brad says, it depends on where you're contacting the crutch. I'd say that if the crutch is touching the ground (which it would have to to support you) then any point where your body is contacting the crutch would have to remain behind the rear edge of the marker. So if the crutch is out in front, and your hand on the support handle is also in front of the mark, it's illegal. It's hard to describe what I'm referring to, so I hope it makes sense.
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Old 09-24-2014, 04:22 PM
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802.04B: Have no supporting point in contact with the marker disc or any object (including the playing surface) closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker disc;

So the crutch can be in contact beyond the lie as long as the point on which you're supporting yourself is still behind the marker.

This seems to go along with Rules Q&A 16: Holding on to something behind your lie is not prohibited by the rules, provided that the object is in-bounds. It also must not be moved, since you are required to take the stance that results in the least movement of obstacles on the course. You are not allowed to hold onto another person for support, as that person is not part of the course. Applicable rules: 802.04 Throwing from a Stance; 803.01 Obstacles and Relief.
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