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View Poll Results: Should the PDGA allow opting out of player packs?
Yes 24 48.98%
No 25 51.02%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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  #71  
Old 11-30-2019, 10:29 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Note that the PDGA allows TDs to retain 15% for C-tiers (required payout is 85%). Around here, it's the culture that doesn't.

There are several factors that vary widely between events, that complicate comparisons:

TDs have varying arrangements for merchandise. Someone who's self-vending, may have a margin of 30% or more. If he has 50 Ams @ $40 entry, that's $2,000 to pay back (players packs and merch)---but may only cost him $1,400, generating $600 revenue. Or more. Which is better than a set fee or percentage. Other TDs don't have the same sort of deal.

Events have varying fixed costs. If you have to pay $1,000 to the parks department to rent the course, and I don't have to pay anything, our bottom lines will be much different. (Some have suggested that the change needed is for fixed costs to be deducted from payouts).
Greens fees are already deducted from required payout.

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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
The rub is that if Tournament A has a sweet vending deal and low fixed costs, so pays out almost the entire entry and still profits; but Tournament B does not, so deducts a TD fee and pays out a meager amount; which will players attend?
Likely both if they don't overlap on the schedule and both entry fees are reasonable. Players don't object to paying for what they get, they object to feeling ripped off.

I would bet that you can run a $10 (for Ams) C Tier at Stoney Hill with no payout or player's package and fill it up.
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  #72  
Old 11-30-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Greens fees are already deducted from required payout.
I take greens fees to be per-player fees, such as on some private courses or golf courses.

Can a TD lump all the fixed costs (course rental, porta-johns, etc.), pro-rate them as "greens fees"?
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  #73  
Old 11-30-2019, 10:53 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
I take greens fees to be per-player fees, such as on some private courses or golf courses.

Can a TD lump all the fixed costs (course rental, porta-johns, etc.), pro-rate them as "greens fees"?
Sure- why not?

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  #74  
Old 11-30-2019, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Sure- why not?
"Note: Net Entry Fees = the Gross Entry Fees minus the pass-through fees ONLY. Pass-through Fees are: PDGA Per-Player Fee, Greens Fee, and Regional or Series Fees only, NOT event expenses, player packs, etc."

I read pass-through fee as a fee that applies per player, and is passed through. The other 3 examples given are clearly per-player fees, not lump-sum charges that are pro-rated.

I take course rentals and porta-johns to be event expenses; if they aren't, what would be?

I may be wrong, but that's how it reads to me.
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  #75  
Old 11-30-2019, 03:33 PM
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Allocating a fixed fee charged to the event for course or shelter rental per player has been approved in the past as the equivalent of a greens fee although the current wording in the tour standards might not support that.

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  #76  
Old 11-30-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
I would bet that you can run a $10 (for Ams) C Tier at Stoney Hill with no payout or player's package and fill it up.
I'm not so sure it will work with the other area courses (all around 3.0-rated).
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  #77  
Old 11-30-2019, 03:37 PM
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If the idea is being able to pay (for example) 20$ and get no players pack vs 50$ and getting stuff i will never use or want. Then i vote yes.

U have my vote OP.

Also i hate funny money. Yes, you get to pick the plastic you want, but the vendor usually has it marked up as high as possible for tournaments. 18$ for stock champ/Z...no thx.

Ams shouldnt get prizes...should be trophy only and cheaper entry. The cost of these tournaments is getting ridiculous. Especially if you have a 2 day thats out of town.

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  #78  
Old 11-30-2019, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
I'm not so sure it will work with the other area courses (all around 3.0-rated).
Maybe...maybe not. Around here if there is nothing else going on there are enough players to fill a nominal entry fee event regardless of the course. Only one way to know for sure...
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  #79  
Old 11-30-2019, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
"Note: Net Entry Fees = the Gross Entry Fees minus the pass-through fees ONLY. Pass-through Fees are: PDGA Per-Player Fee, Greens Fee, and Regional or Series Fees only, NOT event expenses, player packs, etc."

I read pass-through fee as a fee that applies per player, and is passed through. The other 3 examples given are clearly per-player fees, not lump-sum charges that are pro-rated.

I take course rentals and porta-johns to be event expenses; if they aren't, what would be?

I may be wrong, but that's how it reads to me.
I don't see how "course rental" and "greens fees" are not one and the same. If you need porta-johns to be able to host the event then I put those in the same class. Shelter rental as well.

IMO the only thing that should apply to net entry is the stuff expected to be paid back out and every other cost of running the event should be "passed through."

Are TD's expected to eat the cost of things such as printing, etc.? According to the Tour Standards they apparently are. And exactly where is the money to sanction the event in the first place supposed to be coming from? More dining for the TD? Is providing water at the course (which the PDGA now strongly recommends) part of the player's package? If not who pays for it?

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  #80  
Old 11-30-2019, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
I don't see how "course rental" and "greens fees" are not one and the same. If you need porta-johns to be able to host the event then I put those in the same class. Shelter rental as well.

IMO the only thing that should apply to net entry is the stuff expected to be paid back out and every other cost of running the event should be "passed through."

Are TD's expected to eat the cost of things such as printing, etc.? According to the Tour Standards they apparently are. And exactly where is the money to sanction the event in the first place supposed to be coming from? More dining for the TD? Is providing water at the course (which the PDGA now strongly recommends) part of the player's package? If not who pays for it?
I'm surprised you're just now discovering how the finances are supposed to be handled.
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