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View Poll Results: Which of these best describes Hole 18 at the Utah Open?
A par 2 where 38% of throws are errors, and 1% of throws are hero throws. 6 25.00%
A par 3 where 24% of throws are errors, and 33% of throws are hero throws. 16 66.67%
A par 4 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 23% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
A par 5 where 37% of throws are hero throws, and 21% are double heroes. 0 0%
A par 6 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 62% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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  #3971  
Old 11-04-2019, 10:31 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Oops, 20 holes.

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  #3972  
Old 11-04-2019, 11:32 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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2019 14th Annual Phoenix Ladies Open

Nice to see the FPO and FP40 field get to tear up a course and have some par 2s. Of course, as we all know the longest hole (no matter how easy) MUST be called a par 4, right?


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  #3973  
Old 11-05-2019, 01:44 PM
Whiskey_Jim Whiskey_Jim is offline
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Great thread. Really takes pedantry to levels I didn't know existed.

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  #3974  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:55 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey_Jim View Post
Great thread. Really takes pedantry to levels I didn't know existed.
Maybe we can take it further.

I'd like everyone's feedback on the pros and cons of generating a message like:

"For 2019 15th Annual Pumpkin Shootout sponsored by Sunday Crew and Driven by Innova/Mesker Woods/Meadows Long Tees; 5892 Feet: Consider reducing par for #2 #7 #9 #14 #17. "

which would go into the tournament feedback.
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  #3975  
Old 11-12-2019, 03:15 PM
Whiskey_Jim Whiskey_Jim is offline
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Could it be solved with a distance metric? A 5892 foot 18 hole par 54 course is 327 feet per hole, 109 feet per stroke. If we used 80 feet per stroke that would make it a par 73 averaging 4 strokes a hole. The distance per stroke could be played with but you would at least have a system that would assign the total par for courses.

Last edited by Whiskey_Jim; 11-12-2019 at 03:18 PM.
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  #3976  
Old 11-12-2019, 04:18 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey_Jim View Post
Could it be solved with a distance metric? A 5892 foot 18 hole par 54 course is 327 feet per hole, 109 feet per stroke. If we used 80 feet per stroke that would make it a par 73 averaging 4 strokes a hole. The distance per stroke could be played with but you would at least have a system that would assign the total par for courses.
No. (For details, see about half the posts here.)

But, let's say it could. What would be the pros and cons of actually telling TDs after the fact what the pars should have been?
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  #3977  
Old 11-12-2019, 05:12 PM
Whiskey_Jim Whiskey_Jim is offline
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It would just be a metric for moving forward with some semblance of standardization.
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  #3978  
Old 11-12-2019, 05:26 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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The PDGA already has distance based metrics in their design recommendations. These for the most part yield similar results to Steve's.

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  #3979  
Old 11-21-2019, 04:44 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Now that the season is kind of over, I gathered info on all the Open rounds at A-tiers and above (plus Euro Tour) from 11/1/18 to 10/31/19.

No matter what method is applied, if the TD is setting par for 1000-rated players, the round rating will almost always come out to be somewhere between 990 to 1030.

So, if a round rating comes out less than 990, it is a very good bet that the TD did not set par for 1000-rated players. About one out of seven rounds played by Open players in A-tiers and above are using par set for 1000-rated players.

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  #3980  
Old 11-21-2019, 06:02 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Might a lower rating also indicate that most holes yielded more birdies than bogeys, even if par were set correctly?

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