#21  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:41 PM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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Stable - the disc is sane and sensible; not easily upset or disturbed, and goes where you ask it to.
Understable - the disc is temperamental and prone to erratic outbursts where it runs off to the right.
Overstable - the disc is rigid and fixed in its outlook, and determinedly marches off to the left regardless of what anyone else wants.
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  #22  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:42 PM
charris414 charris414 is offline
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Flight Number Explanation before getting into this ... I will write this as if one is attempting to throw a roadrunner and a firebird, which are both speed 9 discs.

Speed - the intended cruising speed of the disc in order for it to achieve it's intended glide, turn, and fade. If a new player with poor mechanics can not accelerate the roadrunner up to its cruising speed, the disc will appear to behave as if it is a firebird for a player with better mechanics (ie: arm speed).

Glide - this is the disc's ability to stay in the air at its cruising speed (or higher). The higher the glide, the longer the disc will stay in the air and appear to fight gravity. Firebirds have a glide of "3" while roadrunners have a glide of "5"

Turn - Assuming you as the thrower have enough power to accelerate the disc to its cruising speed, if a disc appears to turn against it's natural intended flight, you now know you have enough power to exceed it. A roadrunner appear to be "understable" or "neutral" for a low power player because it has a turn of -4. This number means that a roadrunner can compensate for a low power player with its intended flight. A firebird has a turn of 0, meaning that while it may stay in the air, it is going to be exceptionally hard for even a high power arm to accelerate a NEW firebird to a point at which it will begin to move against its intended flight.

Fade - this is the number that most effectively denotes "stability." A firebird has a fade of 4 and a roadrunner has a fade of 1. This means that as the firebird loses speed at the end of its full flight it will appear to fall to the ground quicker and more noticeably in the opposite direction of its given spin than a roadrunner (which will appear to fall to the ground on a straight line).

Stability is a function of a player's arm speed and the characteristics of the disc they are throwing. A skilled player who can vary their arm speed, adjust the disc angles (both nose and side), and their release point, in order to make a disc like a roadrunner appear to fly like a firebird. Similarly, a new player who lacks these skills will also throw a roadrunner and have it appear to act like a firebird.

Therefore, the true definition of overstability is "how quickly will a disc find the ground when you account for it's flight characteristics." Once you've done that, you can then account for other variables (hole shape, elevation, wind). This is why on an uphill hole (zero wind in this example), one should select a disc with enough speed, a lot of glide and turn, and low fade, in order for the disc to appear to flip to flat (if thrown with hyzer) and then push up the hill.
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  #23  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:50 PM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
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Everyone just agrees to disagree with everyone on this subject.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:36 PM
ballgolfconvert ballgolfconvert is offline
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Anyone know at what speed and spin the disc ratings are accurate? is their any standardization through out the industry?

I have seen many topics about growing the sport, its failure to really catch on, etc. I rarely see the discs themselves mentioned as a major impediment, although I think that is a major reason. Just way too much variation from disc to disc with break-in periods, etc. No other sport equipment changes the way that discs change. Someone new to the game, who only plays a couple times a week, has a hell of a time breaking in discs to where they should fly the way they should fly. Add in water hazards, etc. a new player may never get certain discs into a proper break in condition or have a way of knowing which disc is actually best for them. Only through long term dedication is this possible, which likely discourages a large number of starting players. I wish the manufacturers could figure a way to sell new broken in discs, same as they have faded jeans and such.
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:41 PM
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I believe with the flight numbers you have to adjust them to your game. They do matter and can help us understand the flight but they don't tell the whole story. The rest of the story is the thrower.

Then there are times it makes no sense. I have a star lite Valkyrie that I call my star lite Thunderbird because that's how it flies.

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Old 01-24-2020, 05:28 PM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgolfconvert View Post
Anyone know at what speed and spin the disc ratings are accurate?
Vibram used to actually indicate (in MPH) a specific speed each disc needed to be thrown to achieve the intended flight. As for spin... it would be hard for companies to assess RPM's at launch, and even tougher for us to determine our own spin rates as a means of comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgolfconvert View Post
is their any standardization through out the industry?
Nope. Now that Discraft has joined the four # fight rating system bandwagon, most suppliers have adopted a rating system similar to Innova's. But since none of them is based on anything absolute, all they really do is provide a relative reference of how a given disc in their product line will perform compared to another disc in their line.

Even if each company's #'s make sense across their own product line, since they're not based on anything absolute, you can't really can't say tell if one company's #'s are necessarily equivalent to another's, until you observe enough throws of competing manufacturers to determine how closely Company X's flight #'s correspond to Company Y's or Company Z's.

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  #27  
Old 01-24-2020, 07:43 PM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgolfconvert View Post
Anyone know at what speed and spin the disc ratings are accurate? is their any standardization through out the industry?



I have seen many topics about growing the sport, its failure to really catch on, etc. I rarely see the discs themselves mentioned as a major impediment, although I think that is a major reason. Just way too much variation from disc to disc with break-in periods, etc. No other sport equipment changes the way that discs change. Someone new to the game, who only plays a couple times a week, has a hell of a time breaking in discs to where they should fly the way they should fly. Add in water hazards, etc. a new player may never get certain discs into a proper break in condition or have a way of knowing which disc is actually best for them. Only through long term dedication is this possible, which likely discourages a large number of starting players. I wish the manufacturers could figure a way to sell new broken in discs, same as they have faded jeans and such.
But you don't have to break discs in. You can choose a disc that does what you want out of the box.
Knowing which disc that is, and in which plastic... that's the hard part.

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