#221  
Old 08-24-2017, 12:27 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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The downs and ups of the top ten finishers.



The best single hole was Zackeriath Johnson's 3 on hole 16 in round 2, saving him 2.23 throws.

The worst (in this group) was Gregg Barsby's 7 on hole 13 in round 3, costing him 3.03 throws.
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  #222  
Old 08-24-2017, 01:15 AM
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So I havnt exactly followed UDisc and these stats. Is there anything that continues to pop out showing that leading in specific stats correlates to being more successful than others.

I realize that doing well in any positive stat will generally be good but are any showing they are more important than others?
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  #223  
Old 08-24-2017, 02:58 PM
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sjberry2017 sjberry2017 is offline
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Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
Hmm... No arguments going on in this thread?... No Steve's hole analysis?...



(not that I really understand those graphs anyway)

Personally I thought that hole 4(E) should have been par3 and hole 8(6) should have been a 5. No statistical basis for that, just experience.
Yeah, if there's one thing I'd change it'd be moving that pin a little closer to the tee and still on the slope. Like have it 25 feet back but only like 10 feet to the right of the tree that frames the bottom of the normal pin area. Make it a little less dangerous to get close but still have the need to have absolute control of the disc.

For 17(OG16), I wonder if the short pin would play more fairly than the long? It's still a mass of OB, but might be more forgivable and would make the right bail-out zone more useful and reasonable.
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  #224  
Old 08-24-2017, 05:19 PM
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brutalbrutus brutalbrutus is offline
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Originally Posted by sjberry2017 View Post

For 17(OG16), I wonder if the short pin would play more fairly than the long? It's still a mass of OB, but might be more forgivable and would make the right bail-out zone more useful and reasonable.
I think they should make the creek OB start at the bridge for the short pin. That would eliminate some of the more fluky deflection OB's.
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  #225  
Old 08-24-2017, 09:48 PM
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sisyphus sisyphus is offline
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Originally Posted by sjberry2017 View Post
Yeah, if there's one thing I'd change it'd be moving that pin a little closer to the tee and still on the slope. Like have it 25 feet back but only like 10 feet to the right of the tree that frames the bottom of the normal pin area. Make it a little less dangerous to get close but still have the need to have absolute control of the disc.
You just about nailed the description of its usual basket position:
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  #226  
Old 08-25-2017, 08:58 AM
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You just about nailed the description of its usual basket position:
Funny how that works out; I more meant slightly further and and slightly more to the left than normal, to really make the pros push the hyzer further to get up there with the backhand, and keep the forehand line really tough as well. Or hell, just leave it in the normal pin; it is a surprisingly tough hole in that placement anyways
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  #227  
Old 08-25-2017, 12:46 PM
paulw paulw is offline
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If you're not an Idlewild wonk -- please disregard this post.

Reading all this and watching the videos it's interesting since I've played Idlewild several times. The video coverage is outstanding but as stated several times by the commentators it's difficult to get how steep it is.

So much discussion about 17 (OG 16) is almost the same as the discussions I've had with the mopey golfers (including myself) have had about that basket after we've played it. There's no real sure way to play it and it's certainly not fair but it's such a great basket I look forward to it every time I'm there. It's not like when you kick into the creek off a tree you're shocked -- it's almost always like you just want to see that perfect throw land in the grass . . . . but it never does.

Surprising to see so few rollers into 18's basket -- seems like a better way to get there especially now that the guardian evergreens aren't down to the ground anymore.

Also would've thought that the letter basket between tournament 6-7 would've made the cut instead of maybe #6. Throw up some out of bounds, maybe push the basket back right a little with some ob thrown in just for another ace run . . . . 6 is annoying to throw and it wasn't much more fun to watch the grown-ups throw either.

Didn't like or understand the mando on the y-tree but that's been said -- also didn't like the inbounds behind the basket. Made the drop-zone too easy, but that's an opinion I may be alone on. I thought the teeny island was so the only way you get to that basket is with a controlled putt.

I loved 16 -- at least they had to think about where the disc was going to land. Although -- I got confused watching one of Barsby's rounds -- looked like he was right next to the creek in 2 but then he was OB . . .? I was doing other stuff while viewing so I'm sure I missed it and no I'm not going back to figure it out. Always one of those "reality check" baskets when you watch the people that can throw it 500+ and don't pretend they can . . .

I didn't see anything discussing how/who/why the particular 18 baskets were chosen but they/he/she chose well. It was a surprise to see tournament #4 turn into such a snooze fest. I'd love to see the same layout next tournament for these mutants but make 4 a 3 and 8 a 5 and see how the players react. I know the commentators talk a good game how "par doesn't matter", etc., I'm just saying you tell these aggressive types it's a par 3, they'll think they have to get a two . .. just sayin'.

These videos helped me understand the frustration factor and why many people avoid Idlewild. It's hard.
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  #228  
Old 08-25-2017, 10:56 PM
mizunodave mizunodave is offline
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I played it again today (anybody know how long they will keep the baskets in tournament setup?) and I still can't figure out how to play tournament 14.

https://youtu.be/HHfjXcFexzk?t=954

Even throwing a controlled putter that gap is so small and so far down there, you've got to be 1000 rated good to get that consistently and not just get lucky. Since 1000 rated players make up a microfraction of disc golfers I'd open that gap up just a bit more.
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  #229  
Old 08-26-2017, 12:36 AM
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brutalbrutus brutalbrutus is offline
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I played it again today (anybody know how long they will keep the baskets in tournament setup?) and I still can't figure out how to play tournament 14.

https://youtu.be/HHfjXcFexzk?t=954

Even throwing a controlled putter that gap is so small and so far down there, you've got to be 1000 rated good to get that consistently and not just get lucky. Since 1000 rated players make up a microfraction of disc golfers I'd open that gap up just a bit more.
They are supposed to put new tee signs in soon, renumbering the course 1-24. Not sure if that's when they will put the other baskets back in or not. Those guys out there did a TON of work getting that course in shape, so a week or two off would surprise me a bit.



I think if those first two trees on the left weren't there the hole would play much better. Or if they shifted the teepad a couple feet to the right... It's so hard to hit that gap with a backhand from the corner of the teepad.
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  #230  
Old 08-26-2017, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by paulw View Post



Also would've thought that the letter basket between tournament 6-7 would've made the cut instead of maybe #6. Throw up some out of bounds, maybe push the basket back right a little with some ob thrown in just for another ace run . . . . 6 is annoying to throw and it wasn't much more fun to watch the grown-ups throw either.





I didn't see anything discussing how/who/why the particular 18 baskets were chosen but they/he/she chose well.

These videos helped me understand the frustration factor and why many people avoid Idlewild. It's hard.
I think hole D would have been better than using the doinker(Mcbeth's double ace hole). Its still be an almost automatic 2 for most of the guys, but with the mando and the pond, it would be a better score separator, imo. Unless they make the doinker an island or something.
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