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Old 09-17-2019, 05:54 PM
ArtemisClydFr0g ArtemisClydFr0g is offline
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Default Question about wear, stability, and wind

I tried searching for this, but didn't find the right topic and/or combination of words. I have a question about the stability of discs, specifically in the wind, as they beat in.

Let's say I have a Teebird (7/5/0/2) and a TL (7/5/0/1). Both fly true to the numbers, are the same weight (175g), and are in the same plastic. Let's go with a premium plastic: Star.

I have now beat the the Teebird in and it holds straight for longer, with less dump at the end. It now behaves like the TL at 7/5/0/1 in calm conditions. The TL is not beat in and has the same original flight characteristics. If I throw both discs into the same moderate headwind (enough to affect the flight a bit), will they both fly the same or does the more stable/overstable Teebird have an advantage by nature?

My question boils down to this: Will a stable to overstable disc, when beat in, perform better in the wind than a newer neutral disc?
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:03 PM
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GripEnemy GripEnemy is offline
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Within your example the 0 1 beat TB will perform better.

Different variables (levels of beatness, which molds, weight, dome, which political party you're a member of) all of which will give you varied results. Do you have specific molds you throw that you want to talk about? I don't know how well your example will translate to your bag...

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Old 09-18-2019, 03:06 AM
Odedge Odedge is offline
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From what I understand, the flights of a season disc will change by becoming more understable. So the Teebird (7/5/0/2) might become more of a Teebird (7/5/-0.5/2). The flight path of the disc will change, even though the finishing spot might be the same as the TL (7/5/0/1). I don't know if wear affects the fade, which is the last number.

With minimal wear, I think a more over stable disc will perform better. The more you use it and hit trees, it shouldn't perform better with time.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:02 AM
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Meillo Meillo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odedge View Post
From what I understand, the flights of a season disc will change by becoming more understable. So the Teebird (7/5/0/2) might become more of a Teebird (7/5/-0.5/2).
No, it depends. A Teebird (0/2) seasons to 0/1 and then to 0/0, whereas an Eagle (-1/3) rather seasons to -2/3. I.e. some molds lose their fade first then develop turn, some develop turn first then lose their fade.


Throwing into a headwind, the amount of turn (i.e. less HSS) is the more relevant factor. The previously more overstable disc (mainly the one which had more HSS) will likely hold up better into a headwind.


Last edited by Meillo; 09-18-2019 at 04:04 AM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:30 AM
mojorooks mojorooks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meillo View Post
No, it depends. A Teebird (0/2) seasons to 0/1 and then to 0/0, whereas an Eagle (-1/3) rather seasons to -2/3. I.e. some molds lose their fade first then develop turn, some develop turn first then lose their fade.


Throwing into a headwind, the amount of turn (i.e. less HSS) is the more relevant factor. The previously more overstable disc (mainly the one which had more HSS) will likely hold up better into a headwind.
Interesting.

So a Thunderbird 9,5,0,2 will perform better in a headwind than a Valkyrie 9,4,-2,2 but a Firebird 9,3,0,4 should be about the same?
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:13 AM
wims wims is offline
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0 isn't just 0. The Firebird 0 is more like +0.5 than 0

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Old 09-18-2019, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojorooks View Post
So a Thunderbird 9,5,0,2 will perform better in a headwind than a Valkyrie 9,4,-2,2 but a Firebird 9,3,0,4 should be about the same?
Throwing into a headwind is the same as throwing faster. If you can throw 300 and throw into a headwind, the flight will be the same as if you would throw 350 or 400. A Valkyrie, that used to fly straight, becomes understable. A Roadrunner, that used to be slightly understable, becomes a roller disc. A Firebird, that used to be a meathook, flies more like a Thunderbird. You'll experience the same shift if you throw downhill. The opposite for throwing slower or with a tailwind or uphill.


In my experience, the flight path of a disc that already has some turn in calm condition is more affected by a headwind than a disc that has high HSS. If I compare a beat to straight DX Teebird and a Star Valkyrie, which I typically use for the same shots as they both fly very straight (the Teebird purely straight, the Valkyrie with a tiny S), into a headwind the Valk has more potential to turn and burn, despite being the faster disc; the Teebird fights more against it.

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Old 09-18-2019, 08:31 AM
ArtemisClydFr0g ArtemisClydFr0g is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GripEnemy View Post
Within your example the 0 1 beat TB will perform better.

Different variables (levels of beatness, which molds, weight, dome, which political party you're a member of) all of which will give you varied results. Do you have specific molds you throw that you want to talk about? I don't know how well your example will translate to your bag...
It isn't a question about my bag specifically, more conceptual related to disc selection in the wind. I posed the question with variables being equal up until the seasoning of the Teebird.

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Old 09-18-2019, 10:14 AM
Lancerswimmer89 Lancerswimmer89 is offline
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The teebird is going to have more natural stability to it, so it'll hold up a little better than the TL, which has less stability. Until the Teebird starts getting really flippy, you shouldn't notice too much of a difference in the wind
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:46 AM
Twmccoy Twmccoy is offline
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Throwing into a headwind, I'm going with something that has at least a 2 for fade. The wind will naturally help a disc turn. If you have no late fade, the disc will never come back.

In other words, any Teebird I have with 0 or 1 for fade won't be thrown into a headwind.

In a perfect world I'd probably throw a 3 fade disc into a headwind.
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