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Old 03-27-2019, 09:54 PM
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Default AM only A-Tiers

Looking around at the tournaments in my area for the year, I noticed that 4 of the 9 A-tier events are AM only. I thought it would be interesting to hear some TD perspective on this. As well as what the collective here thought of such events....pros and cons. I also would like to hear if this is a pretty common ratio.
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
Looking around at the tournaments in my area for the year, I noticed that 4 of the 9 A-tier events are AM only. I thought it would be interesting to hear some TD perspective on this. As well as what the collective here thought of such events....pros and cons. I also would like to hear if this is a pretty common ratio.
There's only one Atier in the Cincy area. Idlewild Open. Looks like Ohio has 3 total Atiers. Ohio Amateur and then the Brent Hambrick has split Am and Pro weekends.

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Old 03-27-2019, 11:48 PM
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Sometimes those Am only events are just the Am side of a Pro NT event.

I'd venture to say that Am only events are on the rise. They represent a great way for a club or vendor TD to turn over a lot of merch without having to worry about the expectation of a pro payout.

Another rising trend I see are more Am events going to big player's packs with a lite or trophy only payout.
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:19 AM
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Without me bothering to look it up, what are the payout requirements for an Am-only A-tier? Does the TD have to use the "added cash" requirement to boost payout?

The A-tiers I've played in as an Am all had a pro side, and it was hard to see how the higher tier benefited the Ams much. Other than points, I guess. I mean, they were great events, but would have been just about as great if the Am side had been designated as B-tier, instead.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:11 AM
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Generalizing here but:

TDs can actually at lest break even, possibly even make $ from AMs. TDs lose $ on pros and the pros complain the most. Also, pros play slower, despite popular opinion.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:18 AM
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I ran one last year. Requirements are basically a minimum player's pack of $25 and 110% total payout. We did "true am" trophy only with player's pack worth about 130% of entry. It was partially a test run of multi-course format for the Major we are hosting this year. It had the potential of raising some money but that went out the window when it had to be rescheduled due to a hurricane. If anyone needs any Opto Saints i am your huckleberry.

As to your (David's) second point- I think you could say that about all events. Other than points and perception (which is a powerful thing) a C tier can be run to A-tier standards and provide the same experience for the players both Pro and Am.

The financial disincentives to run higher tiered events for Pros grow steadily. There are going to be more and more TD's who don't want to deal with it. On the other hand there are going to be a limited number of TD's who buy in fully to the idea of "big money" Pro disc golf and are willing to subsidize it through their work. IMO we are going to see a few events continue to push the monetary envelope higher for the touring players while the regional pro scenes around the country tend to stagnate.


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Old 04-02-2019, 07:49 AM
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Competing for funny money is no different than competing for cash. The term "amateur payouts" should not exist. There's not much incentive for a lower tier player to enter an event when they know they will walk away empty handed every time unless it's a social thing where all their friends are also playing. Level the field with trophy only events and let TDs compete for players with big player packs, and also relieve them of the burden of trying to come up with enough cash to draw pros. And I'll just throw this out there: the pros need us more than we need them.
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Old 04-02-2019, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimSyl View Post
Generalizing here but:

TDs can actually at lest break even, possibly even make $ from AMs. TDs lose $ on pros and the pros complain the most. Also, pros play slower, despite popular opinion.
DING DING DING!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!

I'm running an event in a couple of months and was going to make it a B-Tier for pros and ams...then I saw the added cash requirement for the pro side and said, "HELL NAW" to that and made it a C-Tier for pros. I have a hard enough time raising $$$ from sponsors as it is...While I want to open the event up to as many as possible, frankly, I will be relieved if I don't get any pros at all.

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Old 04-02-2019, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da Crippler View Post
There's not much incentive for a lower tier player to enter an event when they know they will walk away empty handed every time . . .
This lack of competitiveness and sportsmanship [in tournaments no less] was one of the bigger adjustments for me when I started playing disc golf. For so many disc golfer, it's not about competition, or getting better, it's about "what's in it for me." It's one of a number of things, including the very low price point for entry, that holds back growth of the sport as a competitive sport for good or ill.

Trophy only events with appropriate players packs that give TDs and clubs an opportunity to not lose money on a tournament are the way to grow the number of tournaments. Dumping money into an event to draw in "pros" who aren't actual pros is a doomed model IMO.

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Old 04-02-2019, 01:23 PM
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I have pushed our club away from running Am only A-tiers for one reason; all players must be PDGA members. I think that the amateur divisions are where we introduce players to competitive golf and let them get their feet wet in tournaments. I don't want to require amateurs to drop an additional $50 for a membership and have them find out that they don't like tournaments, so we run our big Am tournament as a B-tier and essentially run it to A-tier standards. For example, registration is currently at 119 people; however, 24 of these are either not members or not current. While some people may become PDGA members to play in an A-tier (that is why I joined), I don't like the idea of cutting off 20% of the people who want to play an event.

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