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  #91  
Old 02-29-2020, 09:19 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
MPO may have had slightly windier weather on average in R2 because they had 49 (13.7%) more OBs than R1 helping boost the ratings and SSA (+1.5). The women had the same number of OBs at 56 in R1 & R2 and may have had the same weather at the end of the day both rounds.

Interesting that last year FPO shot fewer OBs in R2 (75) than R1 (84) on Fountain Hills but MPO again shot more OBs in R2 (442) than R1 (418). Makes you wonder if the FPO field learns more from R1 about avoiding trouble and gets more conservative in R2 throwing fewer OBs, whereas the MPO field may press even more in R2 resulting in more OBs than R1. I checked a few events early last year where courses with OB were played and saw a similar pattern where FPO shot the same or fewer OBs in R2 on the same course while MPO shot more OBs in R2 than R1. Perhaps this is more of a curiosity than something that merits further study because what would you do with this information if this pattern were common?
In MPO (on these courses) you absolutely have to score to be able to compete with even a fraction of the field. In FPO (again on these courses) avoiding mistakes is enough to compete with the vast majority of the field.
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  #92  
Old 02-29-2020, 09:52 AM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
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Thank you Chuck and John for an interesting observation and take on it.

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  #93  
Old 02-29-2020, 10:11 AM
fish58320 fish58320 is online now
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Let’s also remember that MPO was playing later into the afternoon last year. If wind conditions varied more from morning to afternoon and R1 to R2 that could be a significant factor in OB rates.
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  #94  
Old 02-29-2020, 10:20 AM
fish58320 fish58320 is online now
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Originally Posted by fish58320 View Post
Let’s also remember that MPO was playing later into the afternoon last year. If wind conditions varied more from morning to afternoon and R1 to R2 that could be a significant factor in OB rates.
5-minute window expired. I’ll expand to:

I wonder if partitioning OBs by rating would be useful—like, is there a certain wind condition that starts to affect bins of players differently?

I wonder if another factor is field experience on the courses/event. First-time players might school up from R1 to R2, or decide they have to be more aggressive after they see the scores being thrown.

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  #95  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Perhaps this is more of a curiosity than something that merits further study because what would you do with this information if this pattern were common?
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
In MPO (on these courses) you absolutely have to score to be able to compete with even a fraction of the field. In FPO (again on these courses) avoiding mistakes is enough to compete with the vast majority of the field.
Agree with biscoe, and heard this from other MPOs. No risk, no reward, no glory. Top players are throwing near -18 rounds to par (despite what Steve West believes), so you have to attack the course in MPO to be competitive, especially if you are already behind after 1st round. People think Sexton is conservative, but he attacks the course where he can, and he was one of the few guys going for the green in Vegas on the 290' par 4 and got rewarded this year, while last year not so much.

I think the style of FPO play is changing at the top with some of the young guns. Paige Pierce has always attacked courses like McBeth and here her risk is being rewarded, and only a few ladies can try and keep up with that aggressive style and distance. The rest of the ladies can cash by playing fairly conservative.
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  #96  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:59 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Agree with biscoe, and heard this from other MPOs. No risk, no reward, no glory. Top players are throwing near -18 rounds to par (despite what Steve West believes), so you have to attack the course in MPO to be competitive, especially if you are already behind after 1st round. People think Sexton is conservative, but he attacks the course where he can, and he was one of the few guys going for the green in Vegas on the 290' par 4 and got rewarded this year, while last year not so much.

I think the style of FPO play is changing at the top with some of the young guns. Paige Pierce has always attacked courses like McBeth and here her risk is being rewarded, and only a few ladies can try and keep up with that aggressive style and distance. The rest of the ladies can cash by playing fairly conservative.
Really?

Looking at the 970+rated players, they averaged 8 birdies per round. The top players (1020+, or about as good as Nikko and up) averaged 10 birdies per round. The occasional 14 or 15 under that emerges from that group is not representative. Anyway, there is a huge difference between -15 and -18. Those last three ungotten birdies are the hardest.

[That’s based on pars that would be appropriate for Advanced/Blue/950-rated standards. All I’m advocating for is setting par according to Gold/Open/1000-rated standards. If we did that, 970+ rated players would have averaged more than 5 birdies per round, and 1020+ rated players would have averaged 7 birdies per round. The top score would have been 11 under. That just seems to make more sense.]

You could have avoided any exaggeration (and omitted the attack on setting par in a standardized rational manner), and observed that almost exactly half the scores of 1020+ rated players are twos, and your conclusion that you have to attack the course in MPO to be competitive would still be correct.

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  #97  
Old 02-29-2020, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
People think Sexton is conservative, but he attacks the course where he can, and he was one of the few guys going for the green in Vegas on the 290' par 4 and got rewarded this year, while last year not so much.

.
He also attacks the second shot on no2 at Fountain Hills, when in position near the water, with a FH out over the OB and the 18th basket the same way too.

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  #98  
Old 02-29-2020, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
Really?

Looking at the 970+rated players, they averaged 8 birdies per round. The top players (1020+, or about as good as Nikko and up) averaged 10 birdies per round. The occasional 14 or 15 under that emerges from that group is not representative. Anyway, there is a huge difference between -15 and -18. Those last three ungotten birdies are the hardest.

[That’s based on pars that would be appropriate for Advanced/Blue/950-rated standards. All I’m advocating for is setting par according to Gold/Open/1000-rated standards. If we did that, 970+ rated players would have averaged more than 5 birdies per round, and 1020+ rated players would have averaged 7 birdies per round. The top score would have been 11 under. That just seems to make more sense.]

You could have avoided any exaggeration (and omitted the attack on setting par in a standardized rational manner), and observed that almost exactly half the scores of 1020+ rated players are twos, and your conclusion that you have to attack the course in MPO to be competitive would still be correct.
Do you even watch disc golf? Or do you just watch the numbers?

Your math doesn't show how they got those scores or style of play.

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  #99  
Old 02-29-2020, 03:28 PM
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b9...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwK9rqz6sdk
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  #100  
Old 02-29-2020, 04:12 PM
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Well I figured out why my chat was lagging. It was set on top chat for some reason and not live lol...
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