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Old 04-01-2015, 11:23 PM
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thatdirtykid thatdirtykid is offline
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Post One guys quest for the right stable/overstable mid and his findings.

I have been working on this slot a long time. I have usually been one of the guys who LOVES throwing mids off the tee, and often am throwing them when everyone else is throwing a driver.

My recent bag overhaul has left the mids less important. The FD is so easy to throw and really has encroached where I would often power mids up before, but now slower and throwing easy I am hitting my lines cleaner with it. I went back and forth between bagging random stable mids and throwing my drivers powered down, my buzzz with extra hyzer and my harp powered up thinking I had enough that a stable mid would be overlap.

Although I am known to throw some nice anhyzers and good controlled putter shots, most people would say I have a power game, with my mids especially. So keep that in mind when reading my opinions on the discs below.

This is what I wanted out of a stable to overstable mid.
Long enough to not overlap my harp significantly (350' golf line)
Stable enough to leave room for Buzzz and Comet shots, but still hold straight most of its flight with relative ease.
Forehand well
Good wind penetration (300' into the wind)

These are the discs and a description of how they fit in my tests.

Discs I didn't try because they didn't come through in my trade wants or were not available locally. Gateway Karma or Warrior. Kaxe/KaxeZ. Warship(didn't fit stable mid slot, but would be long enough and maybe fade more than a buzzz?)

Discs I tried:

Roc: DX San Marino, KC, Flat top, Star Rancho.
All great discs, I have bagged Rocs at a few times in my time playing. I like rocs, I like beaded discs.
PROS: Stable, predictable, finally with plastic options. Comfortable in my hand, I am familiar with them.
CONS: Not great in the wind. Rocs do well in wind, but are slower and seem to get carried once the wind gets under them. The speed also hurts them because I tee with a putter a ton, and without extra height, the roc doesn't close the gap between putters and my relatively long fairway drivers (FDs) well enough.

Roc3: This one I didn't give an amazing chance. I had a domey one and it needed to be muscled around a bit.
PROS: Solid fade. Predictable when powered up
CONS: Powers down very poorly. Almost glideless without much power.

Wasp I cycled Wasps in X and ProD for a long time before I went back to the buzzz. I am very comfortable with the mold, but I knew it wasn't for me in my current setup for the same resons Rocs don't fit this setup.
PROS: Very workable even in the currently only available Z plastic. Good in wind.
CONS: Not very long, plastic availability.

Shark3: This one surprised me, and was probably the first runner up for the slot in my bag.
PROS: This disc holds the most beautiful and consistent hyzers of any mid I have thrown. You put it on the line and it will sweep it perfectly to the end. Didn't matter if it was a gentle sweeper or a spike.
Good wind penetration and distance
Predictable fade and good flex shots
CONS: You have to throw FLAT if you want it to go straight. It holds hyzer lines so well that just a little hyzer imput will hold, which can put you a ways off line. Doesn't power down amazingly.
I am not sure if this would be typical at sea level or not (I am at 5000')

Pain I liked this one, but it was a little lack luster.
PROS: Great straight to fade shots, and glides a ways for how stable it finishes. This is what I expected the ROC3 to be like, this is more "faster roc" like to me. Flips up to flat easier than some discs, and flys straight well.
CONS: Good wind resistance, but not great.
Fade into the wind was unpredictable with some shots flying dead straight into the wind (good high speed stability)

Vector I had messed with the vecotor in the bag when it was released but it didn't stick.
PROS: Very predictable flex shots. It holds a anhyzer line well, but you know it will come out.
Great in the wind, despite having some dome.
CONS: Not quite enough penetration
Requires a little more OOmph to hold straight. A beat one could be a beautiful thing though.
Not a comfortable forehand grip (but forehanded well)

Sentinel I only have a low 170s one. This didn't get a fair chance because I only came across one, while the rest I had at least two different ones.
PROS: Great feeling plastic, very workable, loves holding any anhyzer lines predictably fading.
Was predictable in the wind
Longer than the Roc3 and other Rocs, but not terribly long
CONS: Touchy in the wind. Could have been the weight, which brings me to another con, availability. Not easy to come by comparatively. This flew a bit like the Pain.

Hornet This was the disc I expected to bag
PROS Stable, flys straight to fade well, good distance and good in wind
CONS Not particularly workable. Fought out of more finesse lines to much to be as controllable as I wanted.

The disc that made the bag

This one didn't stand out at first, but it always delivered and was one of my favorites through each test. The grip is good FH and BH, similar to a shark3.
PROS: Plastic availability is there for me, I do not feel the need to cycle mids anymore at this point in time.
Fast it gets there and is every bit as long as my buzzz (shark3 was there too) It even gets out there a ways into the wind, better than all other molds tested.
Predictable whether its straight to fade, tracking right with a strong finish, headwinds, powered up or down.
CONS: It will flip up slightly on sweeping power hyzers, as would most discs I tried but the shark3.

This was the basic results of my testing. Worst does not mean bad, just not as good as the rest.

Headwind Predictability
Vector, Hornet, Verdict, Shark3
Roc3, Pain, Sentinel

Headwind Distance
Verdict, Shark3, Hornet
Roc, Wasp

Workability on flex/helix and touchier lines.
Verdict, Wasp, Pain
Hornet, Roc3

Distance potential
Verdict, Shark3, Vector
Roc, Wasp, Sentinel

Hyzer angle control
Shark3 (class of its own), Verdict, Wasp, Roc
Roc3, Hornet

Forehand Performance
Verdict, Vector, Shark3
Roc, Sentinel

Forehand Grip
Verdict, Shark3, Hornet
Vector, Pain, Roc

Did I miss testing something I should have? Am I going to want to ditch my buzzz/comet combo and run a variety of truths now?
Anyone have questions, or want my opinion of a comparison of any two molds above? I have been messing with them and picking up extras of the ones in contention for a few months now. I will also have a few throwers up for trade as well...
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:54 PM
World Eater World Eater is offline
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Verdict is among my favorite discs, but I gotta say you're making me want to try a Shark3 pretty bad.
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Old 04-02-2015, 12:07 AM
B-Man B-Man is offline
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It's funny, as I was reading your post, I was thinking Verdict the whole time, then I saw that's what you picked. Last year I was looking to fill that same slot, and settled on a 169g Lucid Verdict. I haven't been able to find anything better for that slot, so I think you made the right choice.
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Old 04-02-2015, 12:09 AM
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asc349 asc349 is offline
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Awesome wright up. Not sure if it has been released yet but the DD Justice looked interesting as an OS mid.

Thanks tho for the wright up, great read.
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Old 04-02-2015, 12:10 AM
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cooter cooter is offline
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Originally Posted by World Eater View Post
Verdict is among my favorite discs, but I gotta say you're making me want to try a Shark3 pretty bad.
The Shark3 doesn't get much love but it might be Innovas best mid besides the Roc. They are stable and fun to throw. You really have to beat them in to get some nice glide out of em but they are solid. I've thought about bagging them a few times.

The Verdict/Truth combo is super solid and covers about everything. I like how you broke it all down to categories. Now that's how you find a mid!!
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Old 04-02-2015, 12:50 AM
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GripEnemy GripEnemy is offline
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As someone who doesn't bag the "slot" at hand I just want to ask where the unmentioned best/worst discs are.

Headwind predictability you give 4 best and 3 worst(7/9 tested), while headwind distance you give 3 best and 2 worst (5/9). I get that not every mold you tested deserves to be mentioned every time since some are average/normal/nothing special, I just think the number of different Best and Worst discs (to you) should be done evenly throughout your mentioned criteria.

Aside from that solid post
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Old 04-02-2015, 01:38 AM
World Eater World Eater is offline
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Nice. To paraphrase, "you gave me obsessive, which is cool, but I wanted obsessive compulsive."

Definitely check out a Truth if you havent. Hss buzzz with legs and similar rim to the verdict. My fluids are more stable than moonshine which is much more stable than my prime.
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:27 AM
Moonshine Moonshine is offline
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Shark3 is criminally underrated. More for me I guess
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Old 04-02-2015, 05:05 AM
Snaques Snaques is offline
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I think you got it right with the Verdict. Based on what I've read, the Bard could've given it a good run for the money.

You could've also added Opto Mace to the list, but I doub't it would have changed the results.

PS. Props on the write up.
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Old 04-02-2015, 05:33 AM
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Smigles Smigles is offline
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my setup was comet - buzzz - wasp - drone for years. The only thing that changed was the Fuse that replaced my comet.

I really like the Roc3 as well, I'd probably bag it if I hadn't so many backup Wasps.

But really, the differences between some of the discs you listet are so small, it's the archer not the arrow.
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