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Old 10-17-2018, 02:31 PM
RandyC RandyC is offline
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Default Latissimus dorsi the king of mass, brace and dingle arms.

Grammar and facts may vary.

I am hoping this will fix many of the issues people are having with their form. I am going to go as far as to claim that many of the drills here do not work unless you get some mass in to your swing.
HUB and SW22 have demonstrated many times how easy it is to feel the brace and swing effortlessly when using a heavy object like a brick or a hammer. Now the problem comes when you pick up a light disc and try to do the same thing.
You keep your arm loose as normal and swing the disc back and forth, try to pendelum the swing like a hammer but since there is not enough weight, your body has no need to brace the swing.
If the swing itself does not make your body brace the shot, you cannot do this artificially, no matter how many drills you do. Without a proper brace, you are not going to throw effortlessly.
You can try to do Bradleys swing arcs, one leg drills, bottle drills etc. but I am pretty certain (open for discussion) they will not yield results, unless you are able to do a proper dingle arm.

What is a proper dingle arm?

Sidewinders dingle arm video is a pretty good place to start, but there is a huge difference in swinging your loose arm with your lats and just keeping your arm muscles loose.
If you dingle arm using your lats, suddenly your arm feels like a big ol' baseball bat and you absolutely have to brace it. Your body _will_ move out of the way (clear the hips).
So basically you are swinging the whole mass of your arm and you can accelerate it and it is just like swinging a baseball bat, except your arm is the bat.
Then there is the case of weak dingle arm, where you flap your arms around with loose muscles and that is exactly what is sounds like, flapping.
If you are flapping, your arms will feel very light but you are unable to generate any force or brace the shot.
If you are doing it the right way, the arm feels very relaxed but heavy and your whole body reacts to the swing.

Quick demonstration doing the one leg drill.
You can clearly see that there is no "mass" when I am just flapping my arms around and when I swing "the bat" I can barely stay balanced because there is so much force and mass flying around.


Here in their prethrows Simon & Co swinging the bat.
If you just flap your arm, it will never get to that behind position where Simons right arm finishes, but since he is swinging it with his lats, it΄s very heavy and just flops behind him as the momentum dissipates


Here you can actually see McBeths lats firing as he throws, arm is there just for the ride.
https://youtu.be/RkPwHUVInes?t=14

How to do it:
Sidewinders door frame drills actually stretch your lats nicely and when you let go of the door frame that΄s essentially you swinging your arm with your lats.
You can place your left hand on to your side and feel the muscle activating as you slowly swing your arm around, when doing it wrong you are most likely feeling your shoulder poking your ear.
Toss a hammer.

Please discuss.
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Last edited by sidewinder22; 10-18-2018 at 02:27 AM. Reason: fixed links/tags
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Old 10-17-2018, 02:33 PM
RandyC RandyC is offline
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN0ZmV-29HY

https://youtu.be/Yv5f_eCCa9U

https://youtu.be/RkPwHUVInes?t=14

There are the links, if they aint working.
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Old 10-17-2018, 03:05 PM
Tepi Tepi is offline
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Nice, I can really relate to that arm feeling like a bat. Best throws I've had lately felt loose up untill hitpoint where that lat stiffens and keeps shoulder closed. Getting this done with xstep is whole another story tho.
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Old 10-17-2018, 03:26 PM
Mocheez Mocheez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tepi View Post
Nice, I can really relate to that arm feeling like a bat. Best throws I've had lately felt loose up untill hitpoint where that lat stiffens and keeps shoulder closed. Getting this done with xstep is whole another story tho.
Me too. I played a short wooded course yesterday and found that I had to swing incredibly slow to keep from overthrowing the holes. Moving that slow, I finally started to feel some of the things described by Beto and Blake in the old DGR threads. I think the lat tightening up triggers the final tug of the disc in the full hit.
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Old 10-17-2018, 03:30 PM
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Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
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I hear what you are saying... but I must say in every sport people really want to focus on a certain muscle or muscle group and it has forever been a pet peeve of mine.

Other than emphasizing core strength and flexibility as being the most important to any and all sports movements I think most other muscles it is counter productive to try and focus on a specific muscle or group but rather integrating a whole motion.

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Old 10-17-2018, 03:40 PM
RandyC RandyC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Putt for D'oh View Post
I hear what you are saying... but I must say in every sport people really want to focus on a certain muscle or muscle group and it has forever been a pet peeve of mine.

Other than emphasizing core strength and flexibility as being the most important to any and all sports movements I think most other muscles it is counter productive to try and focus on a specific muscle or group but rather integrating a whole motion.
I didnt mean that this is the big secret to great disc toss. Kinetic chain is what we obviously want but if you want an effortless swing you better get em big muscles activated. This is just one part of the chain, something that will help out when doing em drills.

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Old 10-17-2018, 03:40 PM
Frisbee-Hanski Frisbee-Hanski is offline
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Very Interesting! Sidewinder's doorframe drills have been and are kind of a key for me. To feel the same with xstep - that is not so easy.
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Old 10-17-2018, 03:52 PM
Discusted Discusted is offline
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Very informative thread. Will have to field practice this for sure to get the feel. Some initial questions:
1. When you engage the lat muscles aren't you opening the shoulders while do this which kind of goes against the locked shoulder theory of throwing? Or Is it a matter of timing the lat pull so that it the shoulder is still closed when the arc/hit begins? So if you engaged the lats too soon you'll throw with an open shoulder, but if timed right the shoulder should still be closed when it's supposed to be?
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:04 PM
RandyC RandyC is offline
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Originally Posted by Discusted View Post
Very informative thread. Will have to field practice this for sure to get the feel. Some initial questions:
1. When you engage the lat muscles aren't you opening the shoulders while do this which kind of goes against the locked shoulder theory of throwing? Or Is it a matter of timing the lat pull so that it the shoulder is still closed when the arc/hit begins? So if you engaged the lats too soon you'll throw with an open shoulder, but if timed right the shoulder should still be closed when it's supposed to be?
Shoulders stay closed just enough and the swing feels wider out front. Don΄t pull, swing the arm. If you pull you are going to get stuck in to your right pocket. I engage the lats pretty much straight from the backswing and accelerate the whole arm, not herky jerky. Toss a hammer and it should start making sense.

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Old 10-17-2018, 04:13 PM
RandyC RandyC is offline
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Essentially the same thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og3B5muf9YQ
Just using the right muscles to do the swing helps you to feel the arm disc unit, which is way harder than a hammer or a golf club.
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