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Old 02-02-2019, 07:00 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Default The Kinetic Sequence


Take note of how far the rear foot has gone forward before the elbow starts bending in #5. The swing lags back through a taut upper arm, arm/disc starts forward really SLOW from heavy momentum created on the disc after all weight has shifted forward and coils into the braced front side and then suddenly whips out forward.

Most Ams start rotating and accelerating the disc forward before the rear foot de-weights.


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Last edited by sidewinder22; 05-23-2019 at 11:56 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2019, 04:31 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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It really reinforces the idea that it’s a lateral move, re: the baseball video.

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Old 02-02-2019, 06:18 PM
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sisyphus sisyphus is offline
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I'm not a super technique oriented guy (mostly play for fun and exercise, but am starting to appreciate these details), but every now and then, I take a peek at what you guys share. That may be the best single summary image (all then frames in one package) of the backhand technique I've ever seen.

Thank you for creating and sharing it. It's saved to the desktop.

Now I have no excuse when I wonder why I don't generate more clean distance!

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Old 02-04-2019, 02:43 PM
ALT-J ALT-J is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Take note of how far the rear foot has gone forward before the elbow starts bending in #5. The swing lags back through a taut upper arm, arm/disc starts forward really SLOW from heavy momentum created on the disc after all weight has shifted forward and coils into the braced front side and then suddenly whips out forward.

Most Ams start rotating and accelerating the disc forward before the rear foot de-weights.
For me it's the horse stance that makes me wanna rotate and accelerate before the shift. The feeling is really the same that you described in the last sentence. Fast rotation without feeling any weight. It could be a deceiving feeling. The rotation and in the worst case your xstep momentum/speed throws you instead of the disc.

Your first sentence describes the feeling of my best one leg throws. It feels very very different and weird compared to the rotation oriented throw. Less movement and more resistance. Like a catapult resists the sling by counterweight.

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Old 02-04-2019, 03:25 PM
VLaForce2002 VLaForce2002 is offline
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Thank both for the static sequence, but also the gif. If you ever update the gif, it seems you might drop the disc sooner to match the static sequence.
I will be referencing both of these resources many, many times. Thank you again.
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:03 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VLaForce2002 View Post
Thank both for the static sequence, but also the gif. If you ever update the gif, it seems you might drop the disc sooner to match the static sequence.
I will be referencing both of these resources many, many times. Thank you again.
The gif is actually from the Slow Motion Drill, you can see in the side by side how things blend more together in real motion vs more separated sequence when performed in slow motion:


Last edited by sidewinder22; 05-23-2019 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:03 PM
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Lumberjack504 Lumberjack504 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post
It really reinforces the idea that it’s a lateral move, re: the baseball video.
For sure, it doesn't look like David is really rotating until the hit point. I used to try to rotate INTO the hit point. Which is horribly wrong, of course.

I've had the pleasure of playing with David a couple times. Super nice and humble guy, and just an absolute natural. He'd throw a putter on some holes where I reached for a Thunderbird...

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Old 02-05-2019, 02:17 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyzerUniBomber View Post
It really reinforces the idea that it’s a lateral move, re: the baseball video.
For reference:





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Last edited by sidewinder22; 05-23-2019 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 02-06-2019, 01:47 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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I don't typically like to think of my swing in terms of discrete movements, but I think it's worth evaluating if it's worth doing in this case.

After all of this discussion, my current think on the backswing is that it has two primary motions.

1. The "lateral move" - which happens between frame 1 and 6.
- The term lateral in this case can be boiled down to a sideways slide, coming in butt first which culminates in the player fully posted up on the front side and the disc loaded into the center chest.

What I find so helpful about seeing frames like this is that it directly addresses an incredibly common problem: players trying to do what Lumberjack says: "I used to try to rotate INTO the hit point."

The point of this first move is take momentum into the one leg drill. This motion doesn't need to be fast, and in fact, is profoundly powerful even with limited speed. Speed in this move is actually problematic as it's harder to control, and if we recall from the baseball videos (paraphrasing) the shoulders will be SLOWING DOWN - through the opening rotation, so that the momentum shifts into the arm.

I want to unpack that thought more, because it's meaningful to me: If a bat, club, arm is being accelerated and the shoulders maintain speed throughout, the the bat/club/arm will just be dragged behind the shoulder. During the extension, we're transferring that momentum that we trapped with the lateral move into this system - but to accelerate the thing, we have move the momentum down the arm by resisting the handle of the whip. (which leads me into what I'd call the 2nd motions)

2. The second motion is really Frame 6, 7, 8 - that shoulder barely moves as he resists the forward momentum and lets the whip extend forward. For my thought process, I try to maintain a controlled balance very similar to KJ Nybo - the back foot can reset on the ground similar to a baseball swing. I try to keep the arc feeling forward mounted and my chin up (my never ending battle with buried chin). Lastly I keep the lats engaged to resist upper arm compression, but the forearm loose.

It's been great to see all this stuff unfold here - as I'm always working on my co-workers form (and my own) and I was watching him do a 1-leg drill / 1-step drill and throw 20% further than when he added his x-step. As I was across a road, I could see the whole motion collapsing into the Lumberjack "rotate INTO the hit point" issue and he'd be unable to maintain balance and lacked resistance.

Once we broke it down into two discrete motions: massive improvements.

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  #10  
Old 02-06-2019, 03:23 PM
RFrance RFrance is offline
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This morning SW mentioned the swim move in Plasticsnapsauce' Form Analysis (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...unt=143http://) and I watched through the Swedish Badfish video again and it finally made sense to me. The swim counters the shoulder rotation https://youtu.be/9HssJQD1rRo?t=384. I tried it on the course this morning and this was a significant breakthrough for me. Farther and straighter with less effort. A lot of good postings, videos, and discussions going on here lately!

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