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Old 01-25-2012, 01:07 AM
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Default Over/under a bridge lie rule lawyering / hacking

So I know what I'm about to argue is not in the usual spirit of things. But as far as I can tell, it is technically legal according to the current rules.

My disc came to rest under THE EDGE of a bridge. The disc is very near to but not in a large stream which would be out of bounds. Bridges are a separate playing surface.

Since the disc is within one meter of out of bounds, it can be placed one meter away from out of bounds. Out of bounds extends upward in a vertical plane. However, it stops at hitting another playing surface, in this case the bridge.

However, it is possible to pick a spot on the edge of out of bound which is:
- within one meter of my disc
- not underneath the bridge (so it does not hit the bridge and stop)
- when you extend out perpendicularly from the vertical plane less than one meter, you could be on the bridge

Under the rules, I believe I can therefore place a marker on the bridge and throw from the bridge. Am I wrong?

I've attached a picture. The camera was held out from the bridge a ways. The marker is almost directly above the disc, although slightly further in.
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File Type: jpg under-bridge.jpg (149.8 KB, 255 views)
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  #2  
Old 01-25-2012, 02:12 AM
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Allurex Allurex is offline
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That's a meter from the disc to the bridge? Looks further.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:28 AM
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If you bring your disc in bounds 1 meter, and it is directly (even partially) under the bridge, you may move it to the top of the bridge due to the rule of verticality. I'm too lazy (read: inebriated) to link to the PDGA rulebook right now.

Also, unless defined by the TD (or local rules if you're playing a casual round), water is not normally OB.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allurex View Post
That's a meter from the disc to the bridge? Looks further.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. The distance straight down from the bridge to the disc is definitely more than a meter. (I'd guess it was about 4 meters.) That's not what I was claiming.

What I was saying is this: take the edge of the out of bounds that in the picture is up and to the left of the disc. If you extend this out of bounds vertically, it does not hit the bridge. So you can extend this out of bounds wall up adjacent to the bridge. If you pick a high enough spot on this invisible wall, and extend out perpendicularly, it takes less than one meter to get to the bridge.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:36 AM
steve a steve a is offline
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The picture looks like it is in fact OB. If water is completely surrounding the disc on all sides it is OB. It wouldn't matter if it was on rocks or not. Not sure on the bridge thing though. I would shoot from beside my disc.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:43 AM
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From the looks of the picture, you haven't gone perpindicular straight out from the edge of the OB. However, IF a perpendicular line happens to put you under a bridge, you can place your marker on the bridge by the rule of verticality, assuming the bridge is a legal playing surface. The vertical distance is irrelevant. It could be 100 feet up but as long as the spot is within 1 meter in ground distance (think satelite looking straight down view), then it's legal.

Similarly, if you have a very steep dropoff to an OB, you taking 1 meter relief from the OB potentially can spot you way up the hill. A measuring tape on the ground may show it as more than 1 meter, but that's because you're measuring the diagonal rather than the actual horizontal distance.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:45 AM
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That looks like a playable lie to me, if it's not surrounded by water, which it kinda looks like it is. You'd play it from down below either way. Definitely not from the bridge.

There is a Rules Questions & Discussion forum on here by the way.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:47 AM
steve a steve a is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giv'r View Post
There is a Rules Questions & Discussion forum on here by the way.
But he is discussing a disc.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giv'r View Post
There is a Rules Questions & Discussion forum on here by the way.
Oops! Posted this in the wrong place. Sorry about that. I knew there was Rules forum, but I wasn't paying attention to where I had actually clicked too.
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  #10  
Old 01-25-2012, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve a View Post
The picture looks like it is in fact OB. If water is completely surrounding the disc on all sides it is OB. It wouldn't matter if it was on rocks or not. Not sure on the bridge thing though. I would shoot from beside my disc.
I guess the picture is not clear, but the disc was not over water at all. I attached an image tracing out where the shoreline was, as best as I can remember.
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File Type: jpg shore-trace.jpg (150.3 KB, 108 views)
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