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Old 02-05-2017, 01:19 PM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
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Default More mandos and islands?

There's always talk of courses that become easy for the pros. Without getting too "gimmicky", seems like a logical thing to do would be to add in some mandos and island shots once in a while to shake things up a bit without having to physically alter the course.

Perhaps a clever mando once in a while to go through (or under) the trees instead of over them. I'd also like to see more use of island greens that force the player to land within a defined circle or take a putt from 30ft to save par.

Am I missing something? This just seems like an instant solution to bump up the challenge factor without changing anything on the course except for some temp signs and some painted / flagged circles.
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:47 PM
lyleoross lyleoross is offline
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There are direct examples that can be used to test the waters. The triple Mando at USDGC stunk for me, but I've seen some good ones too.
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:48 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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One contingent holds that those solutions have already gone way past the "too gimmicky" stage.

One answer might be, don't hold tournaments for top pros on those courses.

I'm not particularly in either of these camps; the former depends on how well or poorly its done, the latter on what options are available.
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Old 02-05-2017, 02:06 PM
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Mandos are often used to keep discs off other holes or away from areas discs and players don't need to be; they might be good, but IMHO need to be useful and not just to mask a hole's easiness for pros.

I've said before that my solution would be to have a number of the holes (and hopefully approaching or exceeding 50%) be technical in nature, i.e. mostly through the woods or have 'rough' that makes things hard(er) on the pros. In the St. Jude Classic, one of the hardest holes was the one through the big trees between ball golf fairways. Those kinds of holes can still be separators, but pros won't be making too-easy pars. It also makes talk of the tacky, gimmicky "Par 2" more obsolete (we can only hope).
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Old 02-05-2017, 07:10 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
There's always talk of courses that become easy for the pros. Without getting too "gimmicky", seems like a logical thing to do would be to add in some mandos and island shots once in a while to shake things up a bit without having to physically alter the course.

Perhaps a clever mando once in a while to go through (or under) the trees instead of over them. I'd also like to see more use of island greens that force the player to land within a defined circle or take a putt from 30ft to save par.

Am I missing something? This just seems like an instant solution to bump up the challenge factor without changing anything on the course except for some temp signs and some painted / flagged circles.
BOOOO HISSSS! Island greens ARE gimmicks, unless they occur naturally. And naturally occurring island greens will slow down the pace of play and have a need for bridges to get to the spot.

That being said, what's making it "too easy" for top pros is that putting is unbelievably good inside of 40 feet. The percentage of made putts also increases on coverage since we nearly always have the top performing players, meaning the ones who are already making WAY more putts than average. To me, the solution is to work on the difficulty of the short game. Make approach shot placement (not just inside the circle, but where) a premium AND replicate the "reading of the curvature of the green" that ball golf has. I advocate for a shield-like device that is attachable/detachable to current baskets, that essentially "blocks" 1/3 of the basket. That solution to more challenge in the short game has several advantages, particularly over those who advocate for the skinny baskets like Titan or Marksman.
  • these devices don't require a larger investment to the course; In fact if these are only used for A-tiers and above for MPO/FPO, TDs put them on during the event, take them down after the event.
  • they don't require massive changes to the course that affect the regular and casual play for courses that are used outside of tournaments for all skill levels
  • your current putting percentage is only the same as long as your approach shot (your drive on par 3 holes) is on the good side of the basket
  • they add an additional skill, like "reading the green" in ball golf, in that if you are required to putt a shot where you only see part of the clear side, players have to have both an anhyzer and hyzer putt when certain angles require them to curve it in to the basket.

It's been discussed on other forums, and I'll link one soon as I can prerube it.

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Old 02-05-2017, 08:00 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Latest thread on putting:

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums...d.php?t=113103

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Old 02-05-2017, 10:38 PM
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BOOOO HISSSS! Island greens ARE gimmicks, unless they occur naturally.
I've never understood this. Manufactured island holes may be aesthetically displeasing to some, but if it would have been a good hole if found naturally, it's just as good a hole if created. Or, at least, seems so to me.
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Old 02-05-2017, 10:42 PM
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That being said, what's making it "too easy" for top pros is that putting is unbelievably good inside of 40 feet.
Nor am I sure about this. I've watched top players shred courses that are pretty tough for everyone else, and their distance, accuracy at distance, and ability to hit tight lines also makes it seem easy. On wooded courses, it's as if the fairways are twice as wide for them, as everyone else.

In addition to the putting, of course.

I'm not sure disc golf is "too easy", or they're just playing on courses designed for different skill level. Perhaps as we see more top events on appropriate courses, it won't seem that way.
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Old 02-05-2017, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
I've never understood this. Manufactured island holes may be aesthetically displeasing to some, but if it would have been a good hole if found naturally, it's just as good a hole if created. Or, at least, seems so to me.
There are several ways to do island type holes. The ones that fail are when the most common score is not 3 such as hole 18 at AO.
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Old 02-05-2017, 10:59 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by araytx View Post
...I advocate for a shield-like device that is attachable/detachable to current baskets, that essentially "blocks" 1/3 of the basket. That solution to more challenge in the short game has several advantages, particularly over those who advocate for the skinny baskets like Titan or Marksman.
So, when are you going to run a tournament with these to test it? Or bribe an already planned tournament with extra prize money to do it?
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