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Old 11-11-2012, 12:18 AM
jugglerbri jugglerbri is offline
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Default Unplayable lie or below ground?

Having a discussion with some guys in my league and I was wondering what you all thought.

Here's the situation, I was playing up in Montana last week (just out by myself so it doesn't really matter what the correct call on the rule turns out to be) and my shot ended up in a crevice that actually went underneath the basket. The basket is bolted to the face of a 15' cliff and you tee off facing the cliff. There is no OB on the hole.

Is the disc "Unplayable" or "Below the Playing Surface"?





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Last edited by jugglerbri; 11-11-2012 at 12:21 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-11-2012, 12:24 AM
jugglerbri jugglerbri is offline
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Here's a link to the course if anyone is interested: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1189
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:27 AM
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discgolf4lif3 discgolf4lif3 is offline
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That's a sick hole.. How did you get your disc out? And have no idea anyone know the rules for this one? Prerube any threads?
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:31 AM
jugglerbri jugglerbri is offline
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I was able to flick it out with a stick. Absolutely no way to play it where it was that's for sure. I suppose if it's not considered "Below the Playing Surface" then a rethrow would be required.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:45 AM
Colorado Redbeard Colorado Redbeard is offline
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I would play that as Below the playing surface
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:47 AM
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Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
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The disc is on a playing surface that is not accessible for taking a stance. My first inclination would be to invoke solid object relief 803.04E and move back on the line of play until you could get a plant foot behind it (even if it means lying on the ground to get foot placement) IF that direction was possible. If moving back on the line of play would not bring you out, then I would look at marking vertically on the cliff using the "Below Playing Surface" rule

There's no "unplayable lie" rule any more. Now it's called Optional Relief where you can choose to rethrow from your previous lie but it costs you a penalty. You shouldn't have to use that rule in this case presuming either of the above options is available.

This looks like something that would have happened before on that hole. So it would make sense if the course pro had specified how it should be handled via signage.

Last edited by Cgkdisc; 11-11-2012 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:01 AM
SomeChump SomeChump is offline
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You big pussy. Climb down there and play it as it lies. One out of the cave. One back up the cliff, and one into the basket. Unplayable my ass. That's just a tough green. If you can reach it with a stick you can put your feet behind it.

Just kidding. I'd take a penalty, come out 3 feet from the wall and throw it in the basket from below!
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:56 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Seems like a poor design to me. If the hole is played facing the cliff and you're suppose to throw up at the basket, I would think the frequency of shots ending up like the example wouldn't be an uncommon occurrence. Either some contingency should be in place for such shots by course rule (free relief, drop zone, designated below the playing surface, OB, etc) or the crevice should be covered up somehow (build up some rocks in front to block discs). As is and as described, there is too much ambiguity on how it could or should be played.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:54 PM
Crazy Runner Guy Crazy Runner Guy is offline
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Just sayin, that hole is beyond awesome. Tough, tough green to park.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:53 AM
bombmk bombmk is offline
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Chuck, it must rub you a little the wrong way to apply either one rule or the other, depending on whether the first is able to provide relief?

As far as I see it, either it is "Below the playing surface" or it is not. That cannot depend on whether another rule is able to grant relief.
Given that there is playing surface above it, I would be inclined to rule it Below Playing Surface. But that just seems like a completely easy out on that hole.

The other approach would be to say "You move back on line of play to gain relief from the large object prohibiting you from taking a stance - and if that is not possible you are forced to declare it unplayable." In this case that result would be a rethrow.

I would agree that it would help the players if this was specified on the hole.
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