Disc Golf Course Review Dumb@\$\$ New Guy Question #3 - Round Ratings
 Register Members List Social Groups - View All Groups - Your Group Messages Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

#1
08-26-2016, 05:59 PM
 PBokor Eagle Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Maple Valley, WA Years Playing: 1.4 Courses Played: 7 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 692 Niced 125 Times in 92 Posts
Dumb@\$\$ New Guy Question #3 - Round Ratings

So I think I understand the Ratings systems, but the concept of 'Round Ratings' has me confused. My local course hosted a B-Tier sanctioned event this past week-end (2 Rounds Saturday and 1 on Sunday). While I didn't attend, I am pretty sure the tees and basket locations remained consistent throughout the week-end. The only difference was the weather. Saturday was blazing hot (90-100 F), while Sunday was 20 degrees cooler.

My question is this: Why would the same player, throwing the same score get different ratings? See example below.
Attached Images
 DG1.PNG (39.7 KB, 80 views)
#2
08-26-2016, 06:02 PM
 JTacoma03 * Ace Member * Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Baton Rouge, LA and SF, CA Years Playing: 8.6 Courses Played: 128 Throwing Style: LHBH Posts: 3,767 Niced 264 Times in 79 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by PBokor So I think I understand the Ratings systems, but the concept of 'Round Ratings' has me confused. My local course hosted a B-Tier sanctioned event this past week-end (2 Rounds Saturday and 1 on Sunday). While I didn't attend, I am pretty sure the tees and basket locations remained consistent throughout the week-end. The only difference was the weather. Saturday was blazing hot (90-100 F), while Sunday was 20 degrees cooler. My question is this: Why would the same player, throwing the same score get different ratings? See example below.
Chuck will probably be along to explain this better - but here's the nuts and bolts.

Ratings is a zero sum system (sum total of player ratings in the field is the "purse" for the points, then divided out according to an algorithm - taking into account weather, scores, etc.)

20 degree difference in 24 hours is pretty big, that will definitely make the ratings change.
#3
08-26-2016, 06:39 PM
 rd.bittle * Ace Member * Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Central OK Years Playing: 7.1 Courses Played: 54 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 2,369 Niced 11 Times in 9 Posts

The collective score being better or worse will cause the round rating to go up or down for the same score.
#4
08-26-2016, 06:39 PM
 Cgkdisc .:Hall of Fame Member:. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Twin Cities Years Playing: 28.6 Courses Played: 654 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 11,033 Niced 342 Times in 200 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by PBokor So I think I understand the Ratings systems, but the concept of 'Round Ratings' has me confused. My local course hosted a B-Tier sanctioned event this past week-end (2 Rounds Saturday and 1 on Sunday). While I didn't attend, I am pretty sure the tees and basket locations remained consistent throughout the week-end. The only difference was the weather. Saturday was blazing hot (90-100 F), while Sunday was 20 degrees cooler. My question is this: Why would the same player, throwing the same score get different ratings? See example below.
Looks like a longer layout was played in R1 and the same layout in R2 & R3. Look at Tim Baugher's 58 in R2 & R3 both at 932 and Nick Shuler's 58 rated 979 in R1.
#5
08-26-2016, 06:40 PM
 rd.bittle * Ace Member * Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Central OK Years Playing: 7.1 Courses Played: 54 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 2,369 Niced 11 Times in 9 Posts

If I understand correctly.
#6
08-26-2016, 06:43 PM
 discallday Birdie Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Years Playing: 12.2 Courses Played: 175 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 265 Niced 7 Times in 5 Posts

This was written before posts pointing out any layout changes, but I hope it is still valid.

Not yet mentioned: The course may not change, but the conditions often do. Thus, shooting a 66 was easier to do in more mild conditions. The same would be true if Saturday saw 50 mph winds, and Sunday saw only 10 mph gusts. The ratings are meant to accurately represent the skill required to shoot a given score, on a given course, in the given conditions. The mathematical explanations thus far are meant to accomplish this.

Similarly, I've seen that a given score will correspond to a lower rating in the afternoon round, compared to the morning round. I expect this has to do with players being more warmed up and accustomed to the course during the 2nd round. The opposite can also be true if the afternoon round is ridiculously hot (like at the NAAC http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/22307). I expect that practice and relaxed nerves improved some players scores in the 2nd round, but the 100 degree temps in the 2nd round on Saturday worsened the average player's score even more so. As for the 3rd round, everything was in the long, so par changed from 61 to 69.

One last phenomenon that I've observed is that exhaustion/Saturday night partying can cause players to play worse on Sunday rounds than they do on Saturday. This tends to affect ams more than pros, I think.
#7
08-26-2016, 07:39 PM
 PBokor Eagle Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Maple Valley, WA Years Playing: 1.4 Courses Played: 7 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 692 Niced 125 Times in 92 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by discallday One last phenomenon that I've observed is that exhaustion/Saturday night partying can cause players to play worse on Sunday rounds than they do on Saturday. This tends to affect ams more than pros, I think.
Spot on. I posted the Intermediate scores as they are closest to my level, but the Open players were far more consistent. Par was 54, Open winner threw 55-53-54, Runner-Up 53-56-54.

No decent hotels/motels for miles, so most either camped on-site or just drove in each day. I expect the campground got a little 'messy' Saturday night.

Gives me hope though, as I throw mid to high 60s from the slightly shorter Reds. I intend to sign up next year, just to see how I compare.
#8
08-26-2016, 08:01 PM
 rd.bittle * Ace Member * Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Central OK Years Playing: 7.1 Courses Played: 54 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 2,369 Niced 11 Times in 9 Posts

Good lock with that.
#9
08-26-2016, 08:48 PM
 jeffmonty Double Eagle Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bremerton, WA. Years Playing: 21.5 Courses Played: 140 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 1,600 Niced 127 Times in 74 Posts

Blues round 1. Reds rounds 2 and 3.?

#10
06-12-2017, 10:02 AM
 jksdg Newbie Join Date: Sep 2013 Years Playing: 4.2 Courses Played: 91 Throwing Style: RHBH Posts: 18 Niced 0 Times in 0 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by JTacoma03 Ratings is a zero sum system (sum total of player ratings in the field is the "purse" for the points, then divided out according to an algorithm - taking into account weather, scores, etc.)

I don't find this to be the case when looking at tournaments I have done. I have looked at both ratings that have become official and those still "unofficial". I have found round ratings to be slightly higher than the sum of player ratings. I omitted players whose pdga rating was not in bold.