11 Helpful / 8 Not
Retraction of Negative Review
Pros: I returned for my second go at Foundation one year after I gave it a less than stellar review. My initial claim was that this course was great for big arms but too tough for players like myself who can't throw a country mile.
This year I approached the course with a different attitude. I knew what to expect, I knew it was long and challenging, but this time I would shape my strategy accordingly. I concentrated on placing my shots and trying to manage each hole wisely. In the process, I found myself enjoying the round more than any I have played in a long time. I learned to appreciate the length as an opportunity to test my skills far more than I'm able to do on a typical, par 54 course. I marveled at the beautiful design and the way the holes flow through the terrain.
I enjoyed the front nine last year. The journey through the woods and over the creek is as fun as disc golf gets, in my opinion. Holes 6-8 are my favorite holes on the course. I love the way that 7 and 8 both play over the creek, but not on the first shot (at least for me). Here's where good placement accuracy counts as your drive has to set up your second shot to go over the water.
The back 9 gave me fits last year. I found it much more manageable this time around by whittling the length down to little bite sized pieces. Even if you only throw 250 feet, you can still be near the 800 footer in three shots, providing you place them accurately. Simple math means par is possible on most of these holes, even for finesse players like me.
Cons: I'm retracting all the negative things I wrote here in my initial review. I realize that the real negative was my own attitude. Honestly, I find no faults in Foundation at all. No, it's not easy to make pars and birdies here, but that's what makes it so fun.
Other Thoughts: I can hardly believe this was the same course I whined about a year ago. When I finished that first round I vowed I would never be back. But reading the reviews of others caused me to re-think my opinion and I'm so glad I gave it another chance. Now it's one of my favorite courses ever and I can hardly wait to play it again. With the new concrete tee pads in place, I have to give Foundation a high 5!
11 of 19 people found this review helpful.
0 Helpful / 10 Not
Nothing Better In The Area!
Pros: Gateway Titans
Variety of shot types
Pavilions with fireplace grills
Water during the warmer times of the year
Lots of trees not native to the area that were planted 100+ years ago
Cons: Limited designated parking although there's plenty along the side of the not so busy road
Not as busy as I prefer (although that can be a bad thing in sometimes)
Other Thoughts: Easily the best course within 100 miles of St. Louis.
0 of 10 people found this review helpful.
8 Helpful / 1 Not
Dynamite Destination Course!
Pros: This course has it all! Professional long holes, some technical, some wide open. Short holes too, but none are without numerous obstacles. Extremely scenic, some of the best looking holes I've ever played. The park is primarily used for disc golf, and the land itself is amazing. The creek that snakes through the entire course makes you play honestly as well. Multiple pin and tee pad placements. Right now most of the pins are in the longer "B" locations. It even has shelters, restrooms and water fountains dotting the whole park. This course right here is why I play this game. Mother nature and competitive sports in one perfect harmony. Highlight of my disc golf year so far!
Cons: The only real con I have here are the natural tee pads. I have never played a course with natural pads, excluding the course I played that was laid out on an actual ball golf course with manicured teepads. These here were earthy dirt pads. I slipped badly on one today, but that's because it had rained and I was still getting used to running up on them to throw the long holes this course offers. I understand that many of the courses in this part of Illinois all have natural pads, so I'm guessing this is more of a political thing than a desire. However, I overlooked that minor annoyance to enjoy the top caliber of a course that this place is.
Other Thoughts: Destination course? You bet! I live two hours away, and you can bet I'll be back! I just wish this course was closer. Met an older gentleman who plays the course frequently and he was gracious enough to show me around and guide me as to where to throw and was very gracious and knowledgeable. If you are ever around this area and you DON'T take the time to stop and enjoy this place, you my friend will have missed out on one of the best disc golf courses I've ever played!
8 of 9 people found this review helpful.
1 Helpful / 8 Not
worth the drive
Pros: This is an awesome course, defanatley worth the drive if your from out of the area like me. I love the creek that runs through the course. several shots are over the creek with little man made bridges across them (ex. ladder, big stones to hop across on) A nice mixture of holes some being open but most in the woods. Loved holes 6-8
Cons: the only con I can think of is that it would be nice if there were signs marking where to head for the next tee off position. This being due to the fact that some are around corners in the woods. Could be a little hard to navigate if you didnt have a local playing with you.
Other Thoughts: I will defantitaly be going back
1 of 9 people found this review helpful.
15 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: This long, tough championship course will really put your game to the test. There are many multi shot par 4's and a couple par 5's on this course. The course is very long but a lot of the holes have trees and low ceilings forcing you to throw controlled shots, not just pure distance. There's a lot of places to get in trouble when you get off the fairway or throw a less than controlled drive. There's a nice variety of shots and a few doglegs. It uses the available land, elevation changes and creeks very well.
There are two tees per hole with colored markers in the ground at each. A lot, if not all of the holes have multiple pin positions. Tee signs list the distance for each tee pad to each pin position with a diagram of the hole. There were many trash cans on the course to help keep the course clean. Maps were available at the bulletin board at the parking lot, but navigating the course was fairly easy.
With all the rain we've got recently, I was pleasantly surprised with how dry the course was.
Cons: With a course of this caliber, I was really surprised it didn't have concrete tee pads. With a course full of long holes, having nice long concrete tees would be a huge addition to the course. The tees weren't in bad shape considering they're dirt, but I did move around a bit on some of them to find a better place to throw from.
The tee signs were at the short pads meaning you have to walk past the long pad to see where you're going on a hole then walk back to the long pad to throw.
At one of the creek crossings there were nice cylindrical concrete stepping stones in the creek but two of them had fallen over. If I didn't have such long legs that crossing would have been tough. But then again with all the rain we've had recently the creeks could have more water than normal.
I've never critiqued tee signs with hole diagrams before, but due to all the par 4's and 5's where the basket is far out of sight, I feel like more detailed signs could be useful here. But then again, once you've played here a few times this is a non-issue.
With the exception of the concrete tees, the rest of my cons are pretty minor.
Other Thoughts: Overall this is an excellent, championship caliber course that's definitely worth checking out.
Even with the short pads I wouldn't say this course is rec friendly, but there is a 9 hole rec course in the same park so there's something for everyone here.
15 of 15 people found this review helpful.
10 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: I have been waiting to play this course for 2 years now and I finally found the excuse to make the 3-hour drive to Centralia. I had pretty high expectations, and the course did not disappoint in any way. The conditions were rough because it was snowy and icy, but I will try to not let those affect my review.
Tees- For natural tees, they were nice and flat--it was hard to tell in spots because of the snow, but they seemed to be level for the most part. I didn't feel like the natural tee pads were that big of a disadvantage in most places.
Terrain: The property this course is on is awesome and quite unique. Foundation features the best creek I have ever seen used in a DG course. It is wide and deep and runs throughout much of the course. They find ways to use it differently with each hole. There is a nice amount of diversity as far as holes that play in the woods and some shots out in the open...but not too many. The woods vary from densely wooded to park like. There are quite a bit of elevation changes on top of everything else, which really takes this course to the next level.
Shot Selection: You will throw every shot you have on this course. Each hole is shaped differently and it really rewards the player who breaks the holes down into manageable parts (the par 4 and 5's). If you just want to grip it and rip it, this might not be the course for you (although there are a few places where you can).
Signage: Excellent. The signs appeared to be accurate and marked for the correct basket placements. There were maps for the red tees at Red #1 and maps for Blue at Blue #1.
Flow: Good for the most part. There were a few parts where I had to walk ahead to locate baskets and a few spots where I got turned around, but there were next tee signs in places where it was necessary.
Baskets: Excellent. I am personally biased towards the Gateway Titans. I think they are the best baskets on the market and Foundation is home to the Titan. The eat discs for breakfast.
Cons: There are very few cons for me. The main one is the creek crossing. Because the creek comes into play in so many places, it is very awkward in spots. Admittedly, the conditions didn't help, but looking at it subjectively it was still pretty rough regardless of the conditions. There were a few places with bridges, but other places where there were some big stones used for the crossing. The water was up and it could be very difficult to cross for those less coordinated. Unrelated to bridge issue, on hole 7 I went down to get my disc out of the creek and slipped and submerged both feet (ankles high) in icy water. Good times.
I guess the other con would have to be tee pads. I am not sure that the rubber strips that they have out there do much for me. They were very slick and I am not sure it is that much of an improvement over throwing off the dirt/mud.
Other Thoughts: Awesome, awesome course. Now that I have played it once, I can't wait to get out there again. The guys in the area have a real gem.
10 of 10 people found this review helpful.
9 Helpful / 0 Not
Great Course Even In January
Pros: Beautiful course even though I played it in January. The course is set in a city park and makes very good use of the landscape. David McCormack, the guy who designed the course, wasn't allowed to remove a single tree and he did an awesome job! You could never tell.
Even though it's in flat So. Illinois, the whole course makes very good use of the available hilly terrain. Holes 1, 5 and 16 are about the only open holes where you can see the basket at the end. I'd say about half of the holes are pretty significant dog legs, again illustrating out the good use of terrain to make an interesting course. And the woods are great! There are lots of trees that make for good scenery and obstacles, but no holes that are tunnel-like. It's got a good open feel.
It's easy to navigate. Well signed and there is an accurate map for each hole at every tee.
It's challenging without making you want to pull your hair out. A few duecable holes, but you have to work for them.
And even though I didn't utilize it, there is a practice putting area.
Cons: There is a pretty good sized creek that runs through the heart of the course. It's not a problem for gameplay. It's actually a cool element that comes into play on several holes. But the crossings are pretty sketchy. In most spots, there are tipped over (and icy in January) concrete columns that need to be re-done.
And there are no permanent tee pads. I think this was another regulation set by the park. There were a few rubber ones, but for some reason, it was only on 3 or 4 holes. Some consistency would have been nice.
Other Thoughts: Great course. I'll make a point to plat it again!
9 of 9 people found this review helpful.
11 Helpful / 1 Not
A Humbling Experience.
Pros: You know this course is special even before you get to the parking just by looking at the beautiful park it's in.
Shortly thereafter, you see the practice basket with it's marked increments, then the driving range! A cool touch anyway, but having pavers in the ground going out to (at least) 525' is just inspired. (It does parallel 1's fairway though, so don't expect unobstructed practicing if other golfers are there.)
My favorite thing about this course? About every shot you can have is covered in the first 7 holes: 1 is an open bomb, gentle hyzer. 2, shorter, tighter anny shot with plenty of obstacles to dodge. 3, GNARLY 90 degree anny that's a mother to get a 3 on. 4 is a teeny anny with a moderately guarded pin. 5 goes up and down and through some trees before a gentle hyzer at the end. 6 is as close as you get to an ace run, but even that is a downhill tunnel with loads of ugliness off to either side. 7 gives you 2 doses of risk reward with a creek 3/4 of the way that's not easy to ascend/descend, and an elevated pin on a steep slope.
There's not another course is the St. Louis area which covers THAT much variety in such FEW holes. Hell, some entire courses around here aren't as dynamic.
Flow hole-to-hole is good (though i cheated with a guide) navigation is better, signage is a notch or two away from great.
Many kudos to whomever is responsible for the bridges/stones that have been placed to traverse the water. Wet feet is NOT a fun sensation when it's ~30 degrees out.
Cons: Tiny parking lot that must get overwhelmed in warm weather. (Never did see another place to park, but maybe i missed it)
Missing some of the amenities: concrete pads, water access, benches, open restroom (there is one right by the first tee, but it was closed).
Um, it's not closer to St. Louis???
Other Thoughts: Such a challenging and dynamic course, i'm spoiled to even have it at close as it is to St. Louis. As more and more people take the trip out here (it is kinda in the middle of nowhere), look for this course to climb up the top 10 list quickly.
If you're planning a trip out here (and you should be), send a PM to hognosesucker. Good golfer, great guide, better host.
Added bonus: if you happen upon the McDonalds a mile or so west of the park before or after your game, jog across the street to the quik-e-mart and you can pick up a bottle of genuine REDARMYVODKA! (My avatar is the bottle's logo)
Haven't seen that stuff in 10 years in St. Louis, but that store has it! (mix it with something though, it doesn't taste very good) :P
Comparable to West City Park in Festus, MO in regards to length and tree density, but Foundation's holes require far more shot shaping/different techniques.
A phenomenal course i hope to get back to in the very near future. Hopefully my game will have developed a little more by then as i don't enjoy scorecards starting with 8's :(
11 of 12 people found this review helpful.
17 Helpful / 0 Not
Fun tough course
Pros: The course plays through a hilly forested park, with a large area dedicated solely to disc golf. It's great to play a round without ever having interference from other park uses. None of the elevation changes are drastic, but they are used quite well to add difficulty and variety, along with a few really fun downhill shots. There are two tees and two basket positions that seem to be moved reasonably often, so there is a ton of variety to be had. The red tees are tough, and the blue tees are brutal, even for skilled players.
There is awesome variety in hole shapes here. The lines through the woods and between the clumps of trees on the more open shots are used to force all kinds of different shots, and you'll need to be able to execute these lines to have any chance of scoring well. Most holes have plenty of punishment for errant shots that can easily add strokes to your score, even the more open holes often have baskets tucked in to risky spots. There are a few shorter holes mixed in, but the course plays long and challenging without ever feeling like the holes are just 'long for long's sake'.
There are course maps available for each set of tees at the beginning of the course, and basic signage at both sets of tees, making it fairly easy to navigate the course. The course flows well, you don't have to do too much extra walking between holes. Both sets of tees are pretty easy to find. The 9 across the park road is a great bonus, and makes a nice warm up for this tough course.
Cons: To me the tee pads are the biggest con here. both sets of tees are natural with occasional rubber pieces, and many are pretty rutted out. On long holes, having a good surface to tee from makes a huge difference, and there are a lot of those longer holes here. The signage could use a little work, with better ideas of hole layout and an indicator of which pin position is currently in use, it's a lot of extra walking on this course to walk up most of the fairways to see where to throw. Many of the creek crossings were recently upgraded it seemed, there are just a couple that could use a little more work.
Other Thoughts: This is a tough championship caliber course that will test any players' skills. Beginners will find it very long, difficult and punishing, it's not at all meant to be friendly to newer players. Intermediate level players will be tested and challenged from the red tees, and will need to have a great day to score well. Better players will find the reds interesting, and find the blues a great test of top players' skills, especially throwing for distance while hitting tight lines. This is definitely a must play if you're anywhere near here.
17 of 17 people found this review helpful.
16 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: - Course makes great use of a lot of land to provide a wide range of holes. Pretty even mix of holes in a hilly forest and open holes with massive treelines and fairway obstacles. Good flow between the inside and outside of the forest.
- Holes outside of the forest constantly provide a ton of different shots, each presenting a good challenge. #12, for instance, is a full length dogleg right that has a well defined entrance to a second fairway. Other highlights include a z-shaped fairway and many genuine bomber holes. There is decent to very good elevation changes on most holes, and the large and low trees make for a lot of tight windows and some very precise pathways.
- Wide range of hole types inside the forest as well. There are some shorter shots, with good variety. Left, right, and straight, with some elevation mixed in at times. Other longer holes have low ceilings and hilly terrain to contend with, as well as wet and dry hazardous spots. Shot placement is critical with direction and distance both being major factors. #7 is a signature hole, which involves getting over a creek (laying up a definite option), and then getting up a hill with a pretty fast green. A few multi-shot holes to be found.
- Creekbed comes into play on a few holes in the forest, and is pretty deep. In addition to some other generally rugged terrain, there are many spots to get into trouble. The rough is not too bad, so recovery shots can be very important. The more dangerous parts are mostly on the more open holes with thick trees and bushes.
- Decent amount of protected baskets and/or sloped greens. For the most part, the baskets have pretty safe landing zones, but there is good punishment outside of the clearings.
- Great baskets and signage. Bricks point to the next tee so navigation is straightforward. Natural/dirt teepads are good when dry, at least.
Cons: - The land in general is kind of flat, so there is a fair amount of flat holes. Most of the holes outside the forest have gentle slopes, and only some of the wooded holes have hills and undulating ground to deal with. There is a good variety in terms of up or down, and left or right, though.
- Creek crossings are currently being put in, so there are some spots where you might have to walk around. Not too far out of the way, especially if it's dry.
Other Thoughts: - A championship course all the way. There is a very good amount of multi-shot holes that demand distance and accuracy, and good shot placement. Setting up for the next throw becomes very important, both inside and outside of the woods. These are complemented well by shorter, tighter holes, and longer, slopng holes. A very well-rounded design.
- This course plays tough from the shorts/shorts, and is a true monster with either of the longs (or both). You can choose from long or extra long, regardless.
- One hole plays next to the entrance road, but overall there is a good sense of seclusion.
16 of 16 people found this review helpful.
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