14 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: This is a course that will test you. At 8100 feet, it is long and fairly tight. There are plenty of times you'll see the distance of the hole, reach for your driver, and then think better of it. Staying on the fairway is an absolute must if you want to score decently. If you are a hyzer distance kind of guy, you won't love it here.
The average distance is about 450 feet, but that masks how the course plays. Some holes are under 300 feet where carding a par isn't tough if your drive hits the gap. On others, you are playing over 550 feet. I took several 7's in my round, and I didn't even feel like I was playing horribly.
The first half of the course felt a bit tighter. I felt like the more memorable holes were late in the round. Hole 12 is a 950-foot joy ride, starting off fairly open over some rolling hills before descending into a wooded area where shot placement turns out to be key. This hole plays a lot like the longest hole at Flip City.
Holes 14 and 16 play near a walking path (not as unsafe as it sounds) with some wooded fences that add some character to the holes. 14 is a short uphill hole, and 16 is a long, bending downhill.
My favorite may have been 17, which starts with a straight uphill shot before a sharp dogleg to the left. The fairway gently glides down to the pin, left to right. Distances are listed along the fairway, nailed into stumps on the ground (great feature). I'm not sure the landing area at the dogleg is wide enough, but it's a dogleg hole that reminds me of some of the shots at Renny.
Elevation comes into play on most holes. No huge ups and downs, but enough to matter.
Cons: Tee signs are not that helpful. Most just show the distance, and others have a very rough representation of the fairway. When you are throwing 600-foot holes in the woods, a much more detailed tee sign is called for because you sure aren't walking these fairways twice. It doesn't help that there are temporary signs for the 2013 amateur doubles championships, listing inconsistent distances.
Navigation isn't bad, and "next tee" signs are on most holes. However, I wasn't always clear on which holes had short tees. I was playing the longs, so this was fine for me, but playing the shorts looked tougher to navigate. The map on this site has several holes that are wrong (11 and 12, I believe), so I'm guessing it's outdated. I know maps don't matter to locals, but Charlotte attracts more disc golf tourists than most places.
I won't quibble with most of the design, and I feel like I understand what they were going for. The exception is hole 7. There is a gap of about 3 feet that you need to hit about 30 feet from the tee pad. I could certainly be wrong, but I'm dubious that even very good players can execute this shot consistently. I like holes where the first shot is not a full throw, but I ended up putting my disc through the gap and then carding the easy par.
I mentioned that the course is a test. At times, it feels like a driver's ed test. You are striving to be technically perfect and driving carefully, but you're not really having fun. I felt this way for a good chunk of the first half of the course.
Other Thoughts: I feel similarly about this course as I do about Blue Valley in Kansas City: 1) I'm glad this kind of course exists to challenge the best, 2) the area can afford to have a course with limited appeal given the huge number of courses in the area, and 3) I wouldn't say I loved it (although I definitely was more beaten down by Blue Valley than here).
Come see how you measure up. You can't graduate without taking the test.
14 of 14 people found this review helpful.
Designer Response by: 1978
Hole 7's gap much wider than 3', ill measure it though and most players should be able to hit it. The thought of the shot messes with people's minds more than the actual shot. Most players can easily jump putt through it and then nestle up the the basket on the 205' hole for par. But that is the thing with Nevin. If you hit your lines, you will shoot 6-10 under par. If you are off...you will take 7's. People consistently mark the signage as a negative, I've never seen a tee sign on 130 played courses that replaced playing the hole once or walking down the hole to see how it plays. Nevin has tee signs on most holes.
11 Helpful / 0 Not
Great course - challenging
Pros: - Great variety of short and long. Good mixture throughout the course (not all shorts or longs are bunched together). It did not feel like holes were crammed in to get 18 holes.
- Great directional signage between holes. The course was designed with a nice flow, but the signs and arrows made it super easy.
- Many holes had multiple tees. The longs were definitely more challenging, and the par score reflects that. I played the longs for most (until I got to the last 3 holes, and some locals were playing the shorts, and I didn't want to get locked in the park).
- Nice big teepads. Many holes had benches. There were garbage cans or bags at most (if not all) holes.
- Really nice use of the elevation changes - not super dramatic, but it wasn't a flat course.
- Pin placement (thinking 3 and 7 specifically) reward a good approach. If you are short, and your putt goes long, you are looking at least a 3-putt.
- Many of the holes had distance markers on trees or stumps so you know how far away the basket is - nice little touch.
Cons: These are very minor cons, but since we have this field to fill out....
- one that the designers have no control over is the fact that the park locks down - so you are confined to park hours. Not a big deal, but if I want to disc-golf at 6 am, why should I have to wait for anyone to unlock a gate?
- the teepad signs are a little lacking. They did show distances, and a flight path, but there were no landmarks, just an arrow. (I didn't see the ones that are shown in the photographs on this site - maybe they were under the ones on the posts). On a positive note, they clearly outlined what was OB for each hole.
Other Thoughts: This review is written from the perspective of one who passes through. If it were my home course, the teepad signs wouldn't' be an issue. I played this course starting in the late afternoon and finishing in the twilight in the late fall, so I'm sure my experience was rushed. I look forward to playing this course again! I did stick mainly to mids (because I have a pink FLX buzzz) because of the visibility concern with leaves - and it allowed me to sacrifice some distance but stay in the fairway and chase par - it was a learning experience for me for playing within game, and I recommend it. Most of the wooded holes are pretty tight. Not so much like the Kilborne wooded feel (where the fairways are "vast"). There is a short run of open holes in the middle of the back nine. My three favorite holes: 18 - kind of an "epic" finish - downhill following a utility line opening, across a creek and back up to the pin. 14 - hit the double mando, but keep it low so you get under the tree - then you can bomb across the field. 7 - short hole - if you overshoot the teeshot, you are down in a 30' ravine. As I said before, I look forward to playing this course again. BTW, read the hole notes from the course designer (saw them as I was doing this review) - they definitely show how to theoretically (my arm doesn't always do what my brain wants it to do....) run the course. This is a great course - get out and play it!
11 of 11 people found this review helpful.
3 Helpful / 1 Not
My favorite in Charlotte
Pros: I love this course. It has one of the best and hardest long layouts in Charlotte (besides maybe Renny Gold and The Web at hornets nest). The short tees are still quite formidable. The course requires every throw in the bag. From short finesse (hole 2 and 3) to big open bombs (12,14,18). This is such a great design and one of Stan's best. My favorite thing about this course is it's seclusion. Almost zero cars going by and never a random weirdo person lurking at the teepads or benches. There is almost never anyone on the course so you very rarely have to wait or let someone play through. There is almost no water (thankfully) and very little OB. Fairways are always pretty clear and very little poison ivy and underbrush even during the summer, unless you get really really deep into the woods. Hole number 5 is one of the most rewarding holes in golf if you can birdie it. I love that hole and hate it.
Cons: Not really a bail out route if you need to leave a round early or just want to play a few holes. You can bail at hole 12 but it is still a pretty good walk back to the car. (4-5 minutes, which i guess isn't awful by no means, just not a quick hop). Other than that I really don't have anything bad to say about this course.
Other Thoughts: Hole number 11 has changed, and for the better. It is a long dogleg left par 4 now, instead of that short par 3 across the jogging path.
3 of 4 people found this review helpful.
Designer Response by: 1978
7 Helpful / 2 Not
Id suggest, if you were concerned with time, starting at hole 13 that plays you around a 6 hole loop, smaller than the 12 hole loop starting at 1.
Pros: - I really enjoyed the use of elevation on this course. There wasn't much on the property, but what was available was used quite well.
- I liked the concept of a lot of holes. For example, the concept of hole 4 where you can throw a simple shot to the landing area or try to get way down the mouth. Lots of choices for the player
- Holes that needed to be tigther due to being short were (hole 7). Holes that didn't need to be tighter due to being longer weren't and had options (hole 8).
- Fairly easy to navigate
Hands down the best part that not many higher par courses get...
- Distances were marked on the holes at random points. HUGE plus that the time was taken on par 4s and 5s to mark trees with distances.
Cons: - I felt a few times the design was a bit forced. Hole 17 seemed like the basket was just put well to the right so the hole could be a par 4. Same thing with the double mando on 14. Forcing it a bit, so to speak, to add par 4s to the course.
- Tees were good, but some of them were raised which gave a few issues with run ups.
- Not a great course to practice on. Due to the woods, you are very limited in a lot of your shot selection per hole. Overall, you throw a lot of shots. But you are limited on each hole because the fairways are so defined.
Other Thoughts: I really enjoyed the course and really enjoyed the concept of a lot of the holes. It's a very hard but very fair course. And fairness is very important.
7 of 9 people found this review helpful.
Designer Response by: 1978
Thanks Robert - Excellent last point and a unique one I haven't heard before. Nevin basically calls for a specific shot at a specific time.
The short loop planned for inside the park road will offer a practice course on the property. Origginal course was designed for the player who already has skills defined.
The whole course (including #17) was designed and built for the longs. I wish the shorts were never included in the discussion for review; they are not "Nevin," in my opinion. I have and may institute ideas to solve for the 2 "jerky" holes 5&17 by smoothing corners and lengthening throws.
8 Helpful / 2 Not
A Real Challenge
Pros: Nevin stands out as a challenging course even in Charlotte. It's a challenge to play and a challenge to review.
Nevin makes you throw straight. Very straight. Straighter than I can throw. At least for that distance. Any fade at the end of even a good drive can put you in a mess of trees in spots. Is that a pro? In a way. This a course with identity. This is a course built with an idea in mind and I think it succeeded completely. I'll remember this course. At some time in the near future, I'll probably be at some course at some distant location and say, "that's a Nevin fairway."
But just as challenging as this course was to play, it might be tougher to accurately review. What do you rate a course that in so many objective ways is great, and it is great. The layout is fantastic, the flow is among the best I've experienced and the holes are extremely varied in shape and length, all while maintaining a consistent vision, yet can also be extremely frustrating.
Cons: Because it can be frustrating. It will be too difficult for many players. It's too difficult for me, really. It can be demoralizing to watch a shot that holds its line for almost long enough, and then fades into a stand of trees that you will hope to get out of with one shot. And if your drive isn't good, this course will brutalize you. The course is definitely not for everyone.
Other Thoughts: So that's where Nevin stands. A beautifully designed course that will not appeal to a significant portion of the disc golfing public.
There's definitely a place for that type of course, and Nevin stands out to me as one of the better examples of that type. I'd come back, but with a little more experience under my belt.
8 of 10 people found this review helpful.
Designer Response by: 1978
Thank you for the thoughtful review, however, I think that your reviews tend to overstate the thickness of the rough on a number of Charlotte Courses. To the right of Hole 12L and 13 are the only 2 areas of overly dense forest. Nevin is designed for the upper advanced and pro level. Under par golf is attainable for every player if you play smart, if you mess up, you will have a difficult time recovering because of the length of the hole finishes. As a course designer I do not feel that a course needs to be suited to all skill levels to acheive a 4-5 disc rating. Amentities, cleanlines, design, fairness of "fair"ways, safety, design compared to the skill desired to play and direction should weigh more.
5 Helpful / 3 Not
best course in north charlotte
Pros: -demands accuracy
-requires a variety of shots. if you can only throw RHBH, you probably can't play here.
-keeps away the riffraff (one year ago, this was me!)
-great elevation useage
-multiple options for getting to a basket
Cons: -demands accuracy
-requires a variety of shots.
-the rough is EXTREMELY rough, and the dead leaves don't seem to disintegrate, rather they just keep piling up. super easy to lose discs here
Other Thoughts: this is probably my favorite course in the charlotte area, and there are a LOT of courses in the area. i love woods courses, i love elevation change, i love when courses offer multiple routes to a basket, and this course has all of that.
unless you can throw straight as an arrow, and LONG, then you probably want to steer clear of nevin, especially during silkworm season. -temporarily (i see the designer mentioned 2 weeks) this place is borderline unplayable due to the billions of silkworms. i know it's a problem all over charlotte, but none of the other courses i've played this week were anywhere near this bad.
-i lost one of my favorite discs (white star starfire, 163g) on #5. a beautiful flick nicked a tree and bounded right. i spent probably an hour looking for it, but between the laughably rough rough and the sea of silkworm webs, it wasn't to be found.
(05.17.13) update: the course is back to being web-free ish, so get out and throw some bombs. also, much thanks to jim for returning the disc i lost. that's always appreciated
(02.24.14) UPDATE - hate to say it, but i'm gonna steer clear of nevin for a while. i know it's not in the greatest section of town, but i figured on a busy weekend, mid-day, my car would be safe for an hour and a half or so. unfortunately, that's not the case. sometime between 4-5:30 on sat, feb 22, someone busted my front passenger's window and stole the gf's purse, which was stuffed under the front seat. GD i hate people. that's all. just be careful out there, and don't leave any valuables in plain sight. even then, it may not matter :-/
5 of 8 people found this review helpful.
8 Helpful / 2 Not
Pros: -I loved Nevin park! It's 340 acres. It has a few baseball fields, horseshoe pits, picnic shelters, multi purpose trail, a few playgrounds, bocce ball courts, shuffle board courts, soccer fields and the best of all, a challenging disc golf course. The course was extremely technical and difficult for me but I still had fun.
-LONG teepads. A chance in a foot fault is 1/10 chance.
-It's a shame most disc golf courses don't end like #18 does. #18 is the best finishing hole in Charlotte (Barely beating #18 at RL Smith.) #18 has about a 40 foot drop in elevation with the creek at the bottom of the hill. Then, it rises about 20-25 feet. The woods to the left are pretty light but to the right, they are pretty thick. Even though it's pretty wooded, you can still grip it and rip it.
-Good use of elevation on the course, #18 definitely was hilly. On most holes, the elevation is pretty good. The first few holes have elevation changes of about 10 feet.
-The course is very technical but 13 and 14 are mostly open. #12's teeshot is open but it goes into the woods. The woods will still make you better.
-#12 is another great hole. The drive is nicely downhill and it goes left into the woods. It's the longest on the course but with the teeshot, you have a change to throw a nice drive into the woods and lay up for a par. A birdie would be lucky because it's pretty narrow in the woods. This hole get no love :(, and this is a really fun hole!
-Course has great variety, like the aforementioned elevation, on the short pads it has five doglegs and a double dogleg (#5), so six holes are doglegs. On the longs it has eight doglegs. A few dropoffs, a bunch of long holes and a few short ones, and a couple open holes.
-Trash cans on almost every hole. I only saw one bottle beside a teepad, a bud light bottle. Most courses have a bit more trash. Bencheson most holes too.
-The new #11 was also unique. The teeshot was wooded and 240" feet past the tee, it's still pretty wooded but it's another majestic hole.
-Practice basket in the woods. #1 is across the street from the practice basket.
-Arrows pointing you to the next tee for the longer transitions.
Cons: -The course was like a temporary home for caterpillars and spiders. Spider webs were everywhere. My parents and little sister wouldn't stop complaining about it and I don't blame them. I wish I brought pesticide. This is only temporary.
-#9 was a bit over the top for me. It's very wooded and very long. I never had a tee shot in the fairway so I would have to just throw a twenty foot shot out of the trees just to be safe. Still, I did say this course is for advanced players.
-#14's mando gate is irritating. It's not very wide, I considered it irritating because it didn't feel like a mando gate because the mando pointing left is about 15' behind the mando pointing you right. It's used to protect the horseshoe pits and the neighborhood. The first round I made it though but not the second round. This is just my opinion, I think it's frustrating.
-This didn't bring down my rating but it can be a little hard to find the first hole. This place has two parking lots, go to the further one, find the opening in the woods where the practice basket is and cross the road.
-That's about it except that it's not in the best part of town. A cop was there but I didn't see any too shady looking.
Other Thoughts: -This is definitely a hard course in Charlotte but I enjoyed it when I would be in trouble because it makes the hole interesting and challenging. This course is not for beginners. It requires long throws and straight throws. It's extremely demanding. I know people say Renaissance is the hardest but I think that this is the toughest in Charlotte, but I loved it. Every hole can result in very high numbers. Even #2 and #13 and those are pretty easy but if you are not in the fairway, you have to work for a par.
-Every hole is unique in it's own way, I know I say #9 is a bit over the top for me but it's the hardest on the course. It's still interesting and I will say that every moment you spend playing disc golf is worth it.
-#7 would be the "love it or hate it" hole. It's 202 feet long but has a four foot gap to throw through. For a hole with a small gap, I think it has the appropriate distance. Some people will expect themselves to birdie a short hole but it's bogeyed, a lot.
-Every hole can make you or break you here. You will have to play it wisely. Look at the fairway, debate whether you should risk going for a birdie or play it safely and make a par. Going for it on this course can really hurt your score. An example of going for it would be #2 and #13. #2 is a short uphill ace run with a pretty wide fairway, #13 is an open uphill shot and after 200' feet, there is no vegetation to the left. An example of playing safely would be the aforementioned #7, #9 is very tight with an elevation gain of about 15 feet. #16 is a hole where you want to throw about 180' from the short, 350' from the long so you can make a birdie. OB is marked along the creek so if you over throw, your shot is OB.
-The reason why my title is called technical difficulty is because the course is very technical and very difficult.
-This course deserves a 4.5. I LOVE IT!! But the spiderwebs and caterpillars all around the course are a problem. Still, this is one of the best in Charlotte, some say it's THE best. Just go out and play this if you are ready. Send me a message if you want to know more.
8 of 10 people found this review helpful.
Designer Response by: 1978
Thanks for your review Benny. Hole 14 is double Mando to protect fields to left (volley ball, bocce ball, picnics, and right; peoples yards. Everyone dislikes certain holes. Hole 9 plays about middle of the pack a little less than +.5 strokes over par. 12 is the toughy +1.25 and 15 the easy one at -.25.
Silk Worms - This is a 2-week problem experienced in any wooded area (including city streets) in Charlotte. I dont remember the worms being this bad. I think the cold winter delayed gradual hatching of the worms and they all came out together. It has been insane, every where, their pooping sounded like rain at Bradford and HN this weekend.
18 Helpful / 4 Not
Insert Title Here
Pros: (see rant below)
Cons: (see rant below)
Other Thoughts: If you've read my reviews before you're already thinking this is a bit unorthodox, but for all intents and purposes I can't review Nevin like I do every other course... I just have to rant.
We live in a world where nothing is black and white, everything is in this space of grey. Is it good is it bad; who knows what the truth of anything is anymore?
Well in the world of disc golf I can usually tell you how I feel about a course when I'm leaving, for me that is black and white. The only time when a course isn't black and white is when I think... eh... and that usually means it's not that great.
Well Nevin is a different breed of course, it's definitey not eh and it's not black or white either; not for me at least. I can tell you a lot of things I love about Nevin followed by reasons why I don't want to go back and play it.
When people describe Nevin they use words like 'brutal' or 'unfair'; personally I disagree with that sentiment. Is it difficult? Yes. Is it unforgiving? Yes. If you walk up to one of the long par 4's and say yeah I can put my driver way up there and then nail a tree 50' up the fairway and kick in to the rough you're going to have a bad time. If you go for a green with the thought in mind that you're going to put it right beside the pin you might end up down a 50' hill wondering what just happened. That's Nevin.
There are no unfair holes here, in fact ample space is given on every hole to get a shot up to where you need to be to proceed. You could probably take a putter out here and shoot par if you keep it straight... but who does that?
The fun part of Nevin is thinking for a milisecond you can make that shot and then taking the ass kicking it hands out. It has this effect that makes it seem doable before you realize you should of played it safe. That's why I don't get the complaints, you chose the path youre walking down.
There's not many holes here that ask you to shape a disc in some amazing way to score well. You'll get a lot straighter shots and from the shorts this course is open to getting in the red. Though honestly if you're going to Nevin what's the point of playing the shorts. It's meant to be what it is and that's a true test of not only your physical game but your mental game.
You're going to end up in trouble here, you're going to take a few lumps the question Nevin asks is how are you going to handle it? Are you going to complain and say it's just not fair or are you going to stand up and say FU Nevin I'm coming for you.
I don't know if I want to go back and play Nevin, personally I don't think the front nine is all that fun but the back nine for me is really fun and the entire thing weaves through a really great park. The most telling thing about Nevin is both times I've been out there I've seen very few other people out there playing it because the chuckers steer far clear of it.
Though maybe that is the saving grace for an extremely well designed course. Yeah it starts off with some non-inspiring holes but by the end if you birdied one of the "brutal" holes you look back and say I did that. For one moment in time I conquered a little part of something not meant to be conquered.
So maybe I do go back, my one memory of my entire chucking discs out of the rough hoping it lands back in the fairway trip to Nevin was I had a pretty good look for 3 on 17 long, it's a par 5 if you've never been there it's not an easy one. I want that 3... and one day I'll get it.
18 of 22 people found this review helpful.
Designer Response by: 1978
You need to go back to get that 3 on 17 AND the 3 on 5. Hope you enjoyed the new 11. Someday I'll upgrade #2 for you.
9 Helpful / 3 Not
Unpredictably fun and satisfyingly difficult (Beg/Int Review)
Pros: + Unpredictably challenging and fun
+ Hole layout diversity
+ Easy to navigate with lots of wooden arrows pointing the way
+ Short tees that didn't make holes too easy, just slightly less frustrating
+ Ample pictures and videos of Nevin are online
+ All expected amenities are in place
Cons: - 11 didn't have a teebox; sure the hole will be finalized soon
- The transition from 11 basket to 12 tee required scaling a fairly steep ~15ft hill with only makeshift steps carved out of mud. Felt dangerous (not a big deal if dry).
- Hole 15(?) required driving between two mandos that most beginners and even some intermediate players can't throw on without sacrificing a lot of distance.
Other Thoughts: Nevin was a huge surprise for me. We played Nest in the morning, but I didn't budget (or anticipate) time for this awesome course because of what I've read about its level of difficulty and a high chance of losing discs for beginners. We decided to play Nevin anyway since it's so close to Hornets. The two accomplices I played the weekend with had never played disc golf before Friday. Nevin was very challenging for all of us, but it was still very rewarding and fun. And we didn't even come close to losing any discs. We may have had a much different experience if we didn't play Charlotte in the winter, though. I am so glad we did. My biggest piece of advice to anyone playing in Charlotte is not to skip Nevin even if you're a beginner!
One thing I want to note is that I loved watching the 2012 Men's Open World Championship videos online the day before playing Nevin. It was so cool to be throwing a hole and have the mental imagery of Barsby throwing the same hole and hitting a tree that I glided right passed :)
After playing seven courses in Charlotte in 3.5 days, I feel I have enough experience to say, in my opinion, Nevin's layout and course design is the second best in the area (I loved R.L. Smith). From the moment we started hole 1 we felt like we were in a forest secluded from the mainstream sports facilities where we parked our car. This very effective separation helped us keep focused on our round and consider each hole individually, rather than trying to navigate around a park full of people and other facilities (like the first 7 holes of Nest). The overall feel of the course was self-contained disc golf glory.
**Update**: Unlike Hornets Nest, I believe there isn't a primary aspect of discing that is emphasized at Nevin. Accurate driving off the tee on a calculated line is very important, but it's equally important to throw calculated approach shots. Putting here is easier than Renaissance, but only because you're not putting up to elevated baskets all the time. I didn't feel the course favored righty or lefty. Overall, this is a fantastically well-rounded course. I originally had 4.5 discs for this course, but after considering it over the past day and talking to the people I played the course with, I wholeheartedly believe it deserves 5.
Thanks for reading!
9 of 12 people found this review helpful.
Designer Response by: 1978
Thank you for the review. 11s is the old hole 11 which played over a walking path. I could but might not ever use the short again. 11L is brand new, pictures will be up soon. We tried to level and set the pad frame. Pad will be poured in the next few weeks. EDIT PAD IS POURED You are correct, Nevin gets a bad rap for shule. It is not bad especially since some clearing for worlds.
I framed with 4x4's stairs a bit farther down on 11-12Long transition so it is not as steep a climb. If you follow the signs, they will lead you gradually to #12short's pad with no traversing of steep inclines.
6 Helpful / 3 Not
Keeps getting better
Pros: Lots of variety. Very challenging. This course will bring out all the tricks you have in your bag. You feel like you are at a disc golf course only as the course is separated from the baseball fields. Great use of elevation. The fairways, in general, are proportionately fair to the length of the hole. This is a must play in the Charlotte area. I do not have the time to write a book report here, but you need to know that this is one of the best courses in NC.
Cons: Hole 7
Maybe if the surrounding area around the front wasn't so thick it wouldn't chap my ass so bad but when I play this hole I always get a 2 or a 5 depending on if I hit the gap.
Other Thoughts: Every time I play Nevin there is something new, I look forward to playing when I am in town. I hope that eventually there will be a par 72 layout. The new hole 11 is a great improvement over the short version, I would not shed a tear if the old short hole never came back. I did not like the road playing ob on that hole. Any complaints that I may have had in the earlier versions of this course have been improved upon already.
6 of 9 people found this review helpful.
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