Great Redesign of the Course
Pros: This course is hands down one of my favorites! Dave and the guys at Gateway did a great job when they recently redesigned and turned it into a premier course.
-For starters, the flow of the course is no longer an issue.
-The holes offer a great mix of different shots, from long bombs to the shorter more technical shots.
-Logan University is very good at maintaining their landscaping, i.e. grass mowed, downed trees/limbs removed within a couple days.
-Metal tee signs that are easy to read.
Cons: If you are a beginner to disc golf or if you are wanting a casual round to feel good about, this course is not for you.
-Water is or can potentially come into play on multiple holes (1, 3, 8-12, 16). I have lost quite a few discs to the ponds on holes 8 and 9 so beware.
-Just about every hole has the potential to wreck your score for the round.
-There are a lot of blind tee shots here so you will want to pay close attention to the direction your disc goes.
Other Thoughts: Overall, I think that this course while challenging, is also one of the best in the St. Louis area. For someone playing here for the first time, I would suggest you print out a course map to help navigate.
Great Potential, Awful Flow
1 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: -The first 3 holes were great. Well-protected pin on #1, tight but fair downhill and short on #2, scenic and tough hole #3. I was very excited about the rest of the course after playing those 3.
-Use of elevation. Many course have rolling fairways and drop-offs at pin. But, they are rarely used as they were here. Hole 2 was a short downhill, while hole 5 was uphill and right. I found elevation to be used well. Hole 14 (?) was a tricky uphill shot to a pin tucked up to the right. These add to length of course without needing more space.
-Course maintenance. I will give the course credit, they keep it in great shape. Scenic views, rolling hills, great land for a disc golf course.
Cons: Where to begin...
Course flow: This has got to be one of the worst course I have ever played as it relates to the flow between holes. Early on, a couple baskets had the orange tape to guide me in the right direction. But I spent more time walking between holes than I did walking the actual holes.
After hole 3, you can see 4 tee signs. The first 2 obvious ones are 9 and 18. Cross the road and you find 4 and 12. That area is a mess, and if you do not know where you are going it takes forever to find your way.
After hole 8, you have to walk all the way back to where you were before after hole 3. This is all well and good since I saw 9's tee after 3. But how do you get there? Well, you are supposed to know to walk down, around the lake and cut back along a path behind 13's tee. What a mess.
Lastly, I gave up trying to navigate after hole 14 and did not even play the last 4 holes. The course map on DGCR was not correct, since they apparently are making some hole changes. This would be nice to know at the beginning of the course. Some of the tee signs were mislabeled, where hole 13 became hole 14. So someone just crossed it off and wrote "fourteen."
The last hole I played (14,15?) played down a narrow tunnel, with a fence on right and water down by pin. After that hole there is no guidance where to go next. If you travel up to the right, which seemed logical, you hit a 5 foot ravine you cannot cross easily. Down to left? That's hole 17 (?) to some basket.
Pin placement: There is also no indication what pin placement it is in or a good idea of where the pin is even if you know. I had to walk up nearly every fairway just to find where the pin actually was (hole 4!) . This was true even on the short holes. I think I walked almost up to the pin on 12 of the 15 holes I played. Blind shots are cool sometimes, but it can be overkill.
Other Thoughts: This course has so much potential, with beautiful land, well-manicured ground, scenic shots with elevation changes, and challenging shots. Other than the blind shots and having to walk up on nearly every fairway, the holes themselves are pretty good. If I rated this course on the holes alone, I would have to give it a 3.5.
But the poor flow and navigation just kill this course. Unless you plan on playing with someone who knows the course, I would not bother. If they are in the process of redesigning, something on the main course board at hole 1 would be very beneficial to all players, not just out of towners.
1 of 1 people found this review helpful.
1 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: **--Currently in very good shape. Grass was just cut, fairways on #11, #12, and #15 are actually dry (mostly). Play now for a great experience.
**--New placement for #3 is fantastic. Makes drives less intimidating while still incorporating the water trap.
--One of the best looking courses (if not the best) in St. Louis county. Scenic lakes and water fountains, surrounding affluent communities, beautiful use of elevation and rolling hills.
--Fantastic variety for hole placements. All types of shots will be used.
--Truly challenging; formulaic setup for obstacles on each hole.
--Some holes are among the most fun you'll play in St. Louis.
Cons: --Brutally difficult course.
--Woods can claim your disc on many holes upon a bad toss or roll.
--Water obstacles prevalent on about four of the holes that are usually deep and cruddy ponds/lakes. You will not be getting your discs back unless they manage to float near the edges.
--Constant fear of losing a disc will hinder your abilities.
--Absurd drainage issue across the course that creates pure swamps on hole #11, #12, and #15.
--Horrendous navigation scheme.
-- I get the feeling that there was 0 effort put into #17 and it was a rushed production. This hole is also very dangerous and needs to be re-designed straight up.
**--So many of the signs need a reprint. The back half has a bunch that either have two different numbers or just the wrong number. Navigating this course is already hard enough but with incorrect hole numbers? (Thank you to those who tried to verify with sharpie on the signs which holes these actually are.)
1 of 1 people found this review helpful.
0 Helpful / 2 Not
Pros: Awesome course. Good mix of long and short distances with a nice mix of open field and wooded areas.
Cons: It's a bit confusing to navigate, but there's a map available (I'll put a link to it on here) lots of walking back and forth, wear comfortable shoes
0 of 2 people found this review helpful.
12 Helpful / 0 Not
The Logan Paradox
Pros: > A dramatic and incredibly challenging piece of land for a course.
> Some of the holes really, really express what a championship level course should be about.
> In many ways, it's perhaps the most challenging course you'll ever find. Mostly, this is a good thing. The hazards are real and numerous, the wooded shots are fair, but not forgiving and the terrain changes on some holes will really put you to the test.
> Many holes are just so incredibly unique - nothing else like them elsewhere.
> If you need a good workout while getting in a game, this course will give it to you for sure. Every time I play here I feel like I've spent two hours on a stair climber.
> There is a really good mix of distances throughout. The long holes earn their length creatively and are not just long for the sake of long. The short holes aren't, mostly, just easy little pitch-in filler holes - they are a unique challenge... mostly.
> With a couple of really bad exceptions, the course plays very safe. There shouldn't be any risks at all of discs coming into range of any non-golfers. There are rare occasions where people are fishing in one of the ponds, but I get the impression that this isn't encouraged.
> I love holes which mix open fields and tight woods into one, and Logan has plenty of these. Awesome.
Cons: > Without any doubt, this course has the most dreadful navigation of any course I have ever seen. This is a result of two decisions that come into direct conflict with one another: 1. Logan administration was adamant that it only wants players to cross the road at one specific crosswalk. 2. The course design is very obviously forced into the purpose of creating two 9 hole loops that each come back to the parking lot. If the course design ignored this desire to create two 9 hole loops, it could have been much, much better by leaps and bounds and explored an even greater variety that this dramatic property has to offer.
> As a result of the above con, one gets the feeling that they spend more time hiking at Logan than they do playing - a lot more.
> There is a serious safety problem right off the bat at hole 1: It throws blindly over the heads of players on 18. And players finishing on 18 are walking blindly over a ridge and right across the hole 1 fairway to get back to their cars.
> Another problem is the conflict between 9 and 18. They tee off, going the same direction, up the same fairway. It's not a huge safety concern, per se, as long as people are courteous of others (which we all know isn't always the case), but it's darned annoying to have to wait for or feel like you're being waited on so that two holes can share part of the same fairway. It's unnecessary.
> There is also a walk from hole 8 that crosses right across the blind approach to basket 16. It just doesn't make sense why this risk was taken.
> The dirt teepads at this course are pretty much done. They absolutely must be regraded or finally replaced with the concrete that was supposed to have been part of the original plan. In many places, especially when it is even a little moist, you must tee from the grass off to one side or the other - the mud here is as slippery as snot and you will end up on your butt.
> There is so much climbing involved in navagating this course, yet the places where "steps" were dug into the dirt for future pavers never got finished and never got pavers. Now, it's just a gruelling and dangerous clambor up and down steep hills, grasping for trees to hold while you pull your way up. It's really almost a deal-breaker - and many people should really think twice about attempting this course - even when it's fully dry (which is rare).
> Adding more pain to the above con: There is a major drainage problem in many spots at this course. For example, the walk between 10 and 11 is a total bog and almost the entire fairway for 12 is a bog just the same. There are many spots like this and, as erosion takes its toll, this standing water problem just continues to get worse.
> Another thing that one will notice at Logan is that it is almost all "uphill". Sure, there's a small downhill shot at 2 and 10... and there's a real downhill at 15, but that's spoiled by the proximity to the fence to private property that hugs the entire fairway, forcing players to look to delicate midrange glides or rollers to stay inbounds. Other than that, most of the time it's either uphill or over a hill. It get's exhausting, especially when it feels like there were several opportunities to really explore a downhill run.
> There is punishment for a bad shot, and then there is just downright sadistic brutality. I was, at first, a big fan of some of the evil basket placements and fairways at Logan - I love to be challenged and I actually enjoy learning from my mistakes. However, over time, this courses idea of this concept has become loathsome. This is a personal opinion, but I am tired of chasing discs into ravines because of baskets placed on 45°+ slopes and I'm tired of losing at least one disc per visit into one of the 6 times the deep and murky ponds come directly into play. I'm all for water hazards, and a smart player can learn to avoid them - but there are so many times here where it is just impossible to avoid them and still maintain par. I'm being a whiner, but it gets old replacing a loved disc every time I visit Logan and I've been forced to bring junk discs with me to help aleviate the concern.
Other Thoughts: Overall, the fact that this course is just so darn full of amazing potential and beauty is what kills me. All the "why" and "only if" I experience at Logan is just so painful. I want, so much, to love this course. There are still many holes that are well worth while and some really good disc golf to be played, but for every positive, there's another heavy negative.
There was a redesign here a couple of months ago. And it all made the navigation, variety and enjoyment factor worse. I "get" why it was done - to help keep players crossing the street at the crosswalk. But, if the course weren't pigeonholed into those two 9 hole loops, this wouldn't have been an issue in the first place.
I really hope that some drastic measures are taken to give this property the treatment that it deserves, because it could be one of the best courses anywhere... if only.
12 of 12 people found this review helpful.
1 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: - An 18-hole course in West County
- Beautiful scenery
- Good mix of elevation
Cons: - Natural teepads
- Several holes with unreasonable pars
- Legitimate water hazards that might not even be avoided with a decent shot
- Poison ivy in woods (left me itching for two weeks)
- Poor flow at several points (if you don't go with someone who knows the course, you will get lost)
- Absence of trash cans
Other Thoughts: There is one motto to remember when playing at Logan: "You're one bad roll away from losing a disc." I have played Logan four different times, and I have lost a disc three of those times. This course is incredibly difficult, largely due to natural factors. Even the best of disc golfers will find themselves with a couple double bogeys at Logan.
1 of 1 people found this review helpful.
1 Helpful / 1 Not
Doesn't live up to the hype
Pros: -Beautiful location and scenery
-Good mix of holes and use of terrain
-Lots of different shots come into play here
-Water hazards(not typical for STL courses)
Cons: -Absolutely TERRIBLE flow and course design
-Wooded holes seem highly redundant, every one seemed like a short dog-leg left/hyzer putter ace run
Other Thoughts: I heard nothing but praise for this course when it opened. "Championship caliber", "must play" and what not. So I was stoked when I got a chance to finally play it. That excitement quickly turned to disappointment and frustration. You are going to get lost on this course without guidance. I didn't even find 5 or 6 of the holes. I gave up and left after playing a mish mash of random holes I was able to locate. Prototypical Dave Mac design.
That said, some of the holes are great and this is a challenging course. But I quickly got bored when the wooded holes turned into blatent repetitiveness. Throwing from the blue tees would have alleviated some of this. I lost count of the <200ft left-hand doglegs from the red tees.
This course has GOBS of potential, but the layout is absolutely terrible.
1 of 2 people found this review helpful.
5 Helpful / 0 Not
I've been wandering early and late/From the New York City to the Golden Gate/And it don't look like I'll ever stop my wandering
Pros: Logan University is a private chiropractic college in West St. Louis County. West County has so far avoided the disc golf trend (other than the 9-holers in Manchester and Ellisville) so the location is prime for a top-quality course. Fortunately, this course delivers. This isn't a terribly long course, but a lot of the distance shoots uphill and it feels longer than it is. The elevation changes here combined with the wooded nature of the course creates a lot of variety in the shots; I had to throw some rollers and try a few trick shots to try to get by here. A few of the holes (#1,#3, #17) are long and open enough to let you air it out. #9 and #18 do as well, but there is a stand of trees that you have to negotiate that take away the bomb's away effect. On #17 you have to put on your big boy pants because it is a long water carry (I took the safe route) and #3 has some tricky water as well (there is a blind pond up on the right by the pin.) Most of the rest of the course is wooded. There are some really short touch shot/Ace runs (#2, #8, #10) and mostly technical holes. Hole #16 is a great hole; it's a downhill tunnel shot with an OB fence to the right leading to a blind pin with a creek in front and a pond to the left. There is some water on the course, but all of the holes gave you a safe route to avoid the water other than #8, and #8 is an Ace run. There are good tee signs and multiple tees/pins. The course was very challenging to me, but enough of the shots are technical wooded holes that it was not boring like a lot of the courses that primarily get their challenge from length. It's does a good job of balancing challenge with a high "fun factor" and should be attractive to a wide variety of players.
Cons: The flow here is atrocious. The holes are set up to bring you back to the parking lot between #9-#10, but to do that you create a ghastly combination of long golfless walks, walking past tees for other holes to get to your hole, crossing the same street four times for no good reason, a dicey creek crossing to get from #12-#13 and a cluster of #17's basket and people walking from #8-#9. Because of the wandering back in forth, there are several places where you can get lost. However, there is a solution to the horrendous flow. Start on hole #10 and play #10/#11; walk across the street and play #12; cut over and play #4/#5/#6/#7/#8, walk around the green for #17 to get to #13 (which eliminates the dicey creek crossing) and play #13/#14/#15/#16/#17; cross the street and play #9; then play #1/#2/#3/#18 to end the round. If you use the 10/11/12/4/5/6/7/8/13/14/15/16/17/9/1/2/3/18 rotation the flow isn't half bad; #8 to #13 isn't a great transition but the rest of it plays OK. This does not get you back to the parking lot between holes #9-#10, but it eliminates a lot of the staggering around the course like a sailor on shore leave.
The routes on some of the holes (#4, #9 & #18 come to mind) are not really defined for somebody that can't bomb.
Hole #16 is a fabulous hole, but the White tee runs against a property line fence. Considering how many disc golfers would jump a fence and trespass in a heartbeat to get a disc back, it doesn't seem like a great idea to be throwing over there. The Blue fairway is a bit better.
As mentioned before, the creek crossing from #12 to #13 is dicey. You either make a muddy slog through a creek or cross over a downed tree that was too narrow and up too high for my old legs to feel steady on.
Hole #9 and the safe route for hole #18 use the same fairway. The shots go the same direction so the design should be safe if people will wait, but it can create a backup.
When you finish #18 and start walking up the hill, you are in #1's fairway blind from the tee. If it's going to be that way there should be a warning sign directing you to stay out of #1's fairway (or there should be a big bell for you to ring so the guys on #1 know you are there :p)
Other Thoughts: Hole #3 was closed due to a nesting goose. That was a new one for me.
The tees are natural. I don't list this as a con, but concrete would be better. The course is very pretty and the grounds are very well maintained otherwise.
5 of 5 people found this review helpful.
2 Helpful / 0 Not
Pros: Lots of elevation changes on almost every hole- not crowded, challenging, but tight realistic wood holes-
The risk/reward element on many holes brings an element of excitement and surprise every time you play.
Cons: Natural tee pads look right for this setting, but a little slick when wet ; traversing from hole 8 to 9 is not the best dry and definitely treacherous when wet. -(ok I fell down the hill.) Basket locations not changed on any interval I can tell and I am there a lot (work close by) - all of my cons are minor/ easily fixable
Other Thoughts: Disclaimer: have been playing just since Oct , although nearly 3-4 times a week - "newbie disc fever" Course has become my favorite . Have played enough courses in St. Louis to compare and rate it as a solid 4
2 of 2 people found this review helpful.
2 Helpful / 0 Not
STL's New Premier Course
Pros: --Great use of elevation
--Tight but well defined fairways with challenging lines
--Good mix of field/woods
--Water comes into play making several approaches very difficult
--Great dug out natural tees
--Proper signage/Easy to navigate
--Most basket areas are mulched
--Front/Back 9 loops/Tees for 1 and 10 are close together
--Several signature holes come to mind...
The last 5 holes are amazing
--Course requires a good mix of technical, placement, and distance disc golf -- you might just throw every disc in your bag/every type of throw in your aresenal
Cons: --Some fairly long walks between holes
--Brush is pretty thick in some areas
--9/18 share a fairway (to an extent)
--Walks between some holes cut across other holes fairways slightly
--Tee pads are pretty treacherous when wet, needs some work
--Tee signs are hidden in woods on 8, 16; could be hard to find when new to the course
Other Thoughts: You won't find many courses like this in St. Louis. The use of elevation is unmatched in the area. Adding more pin locations (longer/more varied) to use specifically for pro tournaments could make this a championship caliber course.
Lots of water is in play on this course, so make sure to bring some discs you don't mind losing. A bad kick on your drive could send you into a pond pretty easily.
If you play disc golf in St. Louis, play this course immediately. You will not regret it.
Definitely a signature Dave McCormack course that will only get better with age.
2 of 2 people found this review helpful.
Join Disc Golf Course Review
for free to add your review. Have an account already? Sign In
to add a review.