Aaron Gossage's Putt

[jupiterboy]

Couldn't find a video isolating his putt, but I've had a turbulent year in regards to putting and when I watch him I see some of where I am at, except I suck by comparison. What I'm after is any analysis–pros/cons, and other players who putt in this style. What I'm talking about is that he has a kinda quick strike attack and doesn't seem to drop the disc down low and lob it at the basket. The disc stays pretty high—maybe mid-chest. Is this a push or spin?

 

[biscoe]

I have no useful help for you. Gossage is a top 5 thrower of the disc worldwide and has never won anything big because of his putting though. Maybe start over? (only partially kidding)

 

[jupiterboy]

Maybe start over? (only partially kidding)

Again?

I'll see how this next tournament goes. I'm doing so much better in the 10-30 range, and it works better in windy conditions. It's a bit much when I'm closer in, which would be embarrassing if I were capable of being embarrassed.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Couldn't find a video isolating his putt, but I've had a turbulent year in regards to putting and when I watch him I see some of where I am at, except I suck by comparison. What I'm after is any analysis–pros/cons, and other players who putt in this style. What I'm talking about is that he has a kinda quick strike attack and doesn't seem to drop the disc down low and lob it at the basket. The disc stays pretty high—maybe mid-chest. Is this a push or spin?

Sounds like you are talking about his very close range putt style which I would call a stab / jab putt. It seems like it's mostly an elbow extension for power and then some wrist and maybe finger action to spin the disc. Kinda similar to Matty O and Chris Dickerson. This style isn't powerful imo (but he only uses it while close). The disc / hand is held out in front of the elbow so the putting power pocket where the disc can be curled / pocketed more behind the forearm and elbow flared out (internal rotation) isn't missing which forces you to just jab with elbow extension more to get power.

It does feel easier to be on-line at close distances though so it takes the nerves out of slight misses on those putts where you are close enough that you know you shouldn't miss but sometimes are slightly off.

With more of a spin putt, the elbow extension is merged more with external rotation motion, which means the elbow extension can contribute more to spinning the disc and getting more power form the an arc / curve / swing feel out from the body forward and to the right from the external rotation hence more left and right misses. Adding more arm lift into this equation gets you closer to a spush putt where it's easier to stay online but then miss more high / low.

His normal putting style from distance is more of an arm lift hyzer style with a lower reach back. Interestingly, from further distances or on terrain where this style isn't good, I've seen him do a half throw half spin / spush putt with a flatter release that looks really clean and low wobble with high spin. When I saw that I kinda wished he'd just train and stick to that as his main style, but I'm guessing the more prominent up and down on-line arm lift hyzer putt is easier to be on-line with nerves.

 

[jupiterboy]

Sounds like you are talking about his very close range putt style which I would call a stab / jab putt. It seems like it's mostly an elbow extension for power and then some wrist and maybe finger action to spin the disc. Kinda similar to Matty O and Chris Dickerson. This style isn't powerful imo (but he only uses it while close). The disc / hand is held out in front of the elbow so the putting power pocket where the disc can be curled / pocketed more behind the forearm and elbow flared out (internal rotation) isn't missing which forces you to just jab with elbow extension more to get power.

It does feel easier to be on-line at close distances though so it takes the nerves out of slight misses on those putts where you are close enough that you know you shouldn't miss but sometimes are slightly off.

With more of a spin putt, the elbow extension is merged more with external rotation motion, which means the elbow extension can contribute more to spinning the disc and getting more power form the an arc / curve / swing feel out from the body forward and to the right from the external rotation hence more left and right misses. Adding more arm lift into this equation gets you closer to a spush putt where it's easier to stay online but then miss more high / low.

His normal putting style from distance is more of an arm lift hyzer style with a lower reach back. Interestingly, from further distances or on terrain where this style isn't good, I've seen him do a half throw half spin / spush putt with a flatter release that looks really clean and low wobble with high spin. When I saw that I kinda wished he'd just train and stick to that as his main style, but I'm guessing the more prominent up and down on-line arm lift hyzer putt is easier to be on-line with nerves.

Just found a putting highlight video of him from a few years ago and he is indeed not putting in this style. I'll look at Orum and Dickerson.

What's odd is it is working for me at distance, but my distance may be abbreviated by comparison. When it's not working I might smack the band from a foot away, so there's that. I think I've got some translation issues with multiple focal length on my glasses, too.

Yeah, I'm seeing this with Orum.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Just found a putting highlight video of him from a few years ago and he is indeed not putting in this style. I'll look at Orum and Dickerson.

What's odd is it is working for me at distance, but my distance may be abbreviated by comparison. When it's not working I might smack the band from a foot away, so there's that. I think I've got some translation issues with multiple focal length on my glasses, too.

Yeah, I'm seeing this with Orum.

It could help with your distance putts even if it's not as powerful. Maybe you are intuitive using a higher launch angle and are getting some more float that gets you the same distance with less power. Or less hyzer and therefore closer to full flight.

When I first saw Orum putt it was soon after I started DG and when I tried it I had more instant immediate success, def feels like a more point n shoot style which can help, but I didn't want to be limited to it so I accepted worse results in the short term to work on developing the more powerful styles.

It's not the best analogy, but imagine trying to throw a ball by holding it in front of your chest and then just pushing it forward explosively with elbow extension. You'd probably instantly feel it's quite hard to feel power like that since it prohibits you from winding up into a more powerful position. However, a disc can fly, so you can lose power and adjust the angles to still get a good flight so it's not as obviously low power until you try to do something like putt that way from 50 feet standstill and compare that to other stroke styles from 50 feet standstill, or putt into a lot of wind.

 

[itlnstln]

One thing I've stuggled with when trying to putt like Matty or CD is pulling the disc right (in addition to lack of power). I've recently found a ton of success putting more like Gannon Buhr. By standing a little more sideways, I can better align my natural arm swing to the direction of the putt, and I can either zip it in with a spinner or pitch it with a similar stroke depending on the situation. I also don't need to step/jump putt as much since I can putt harder from this position.

It might be worth a shot. The lack of lateral arm movement and less reliance a full-body motion takes a ton of variables out of the movement

 

[RAHfrolfer]

What are short and long distance putts from your perspective because advice may change depending on what actual distances we are talking about.
I use ricky as my reference for all things putting. Most of the best putters go stand still up to mid to long c2 putts. If you can't do this then you will need a completely different putting technique for beyond 30-40 ft. Personally, I changed everything to get a single putt for up to edge of c2. There was an initial sacrifice but it was worth it imo.
Ricky also uses slightly different putting techniques in different wind/consequence putts. For instance he has a more lofty splush putt when it's high consequence and a spin putt when it's windy. I don't think changing your putt is ever a waste of time. It's good to learn different ways of getting your disc in the basket.

 

[jupiterboy]

What are short and long distance putts from your perspective because advice may change depending on what actual distances we are talking about.
I use ricky as my reference for all things putting. Most of the best putters go stand still up to mid to long c2 putts. If you can't do this then you will need a completely different putting technique for beyond 30-40 ft. Personally, I changed everything to get a single putt for up to edge of c2. There was an initial sacrifice but it was worth it imo.
Ricky also uses slightly different putting techniques in different wind/consequence putts. For instance he has a more lofty splush putt when it's high consequence and a spin putt when it's windy. I don't think changing your putt is ever a waste of time. It's good to learn different ways of getting your disc in the basket.

Short maybe 7-15, long 20-35? I start switching over to a throw around 50, or putt to lay up.

My natural putt when I started was a straddle putt. That feels really good to me and I can always putt that way, but not so well with a low ceiling or in wind or at distances over 15 ft. I changed to a stagger putt pretty early to get more distance. That hurt accuracy. I had been working through some footwork issues and keeping the same stroke. Late in this season I found in practicing better results keeping the disc a little higher, even bouncing it off the solar plexus on a longer putt. This gives me more confidence up to 25 ft or so, which is a very common range. Also works better in wind with height adjustment.

Seems like if I fully commit and get my shoulder into it like a punch it works. Feels like I'm taking some of the moving pieces out of the equation. I also get my fingers to do a bunch of the work, which is where I've done most of my work to date.

 

[RAHfrolfer]

That clarification helps. Any putt technique that doesn't get out to 30' isn't worth learning imo. To get more distance on my putt I worked on developing a snap between my legs all the way to my wrist. I worked on getting a loose wrist and getting power out of my wrist/fingers. Once I figured out a technique that gave me good power with not terrible accuracy, I stuck with that and developed accuracy using that technique.
I think there are tons of techniques you can use at 15 - 20 feet that will be super accurate but not able to translate to longer distances.
If it makes you feel any better about dropping what you are doing to learn a new technique, I currently have figured out how to putt to 45' with the same technique and pretty decent accuracy to 30' and I am going to significantly mess with it as I just figured out a tweak that gets me to 60!
I'd say, don't be afraid to mess around with your putt. You can always go back to what you were doing if a change doesn't work out.
Aside from what I said above, other things that worked for me are keeping my hips square to the basket and having my arm swing in line with the basket.
Hope some of this helps.

 

[itlnstln]

I'd say, don't be afraid to mess around with your putt. You can always go back to what you were doing if a change doesn't work out.

This. I wouldn't try to emulate a technique just to emulate it. Experiment, to be sure, but ultimately, find what your body does well naturally and start there. Remember, the goal is to get the disc in the basket, not execute a form/technique. Putting is highly personal, and that's why everyone does it a little differently

 

[jupiterboy]

Yeah. So what I'm doing currently has evolved slowly and naturally over time, but I felt it was somewhat unconventional, and then noticed a pro doing something similar. I've been changing my putt pretty constantly since starting to play. I'm not copying any pro's form. I'm not hesitating to change what I'm doing because, IDK, why would that be, hard to say since it's not what's going on. I don't doubt this is all solid advice but if your read what I'm saying you might find it doesn't apply.

Maybe the good advice and takeaway is that if I'm making more putts this way, and consider that I may be limiting distance at some future point, possibly, in exchange for some improved accuracy.

 

[Sheep]

That clarification helps. Any putt technique that doesn't get out to 30' isn't worth learning imo.

This.
This right here.

Honestly, I'd put it further than 30 feet. more like 40-45.

If you need to "jump" at the basket then putt or step through and putt after 10 meters, then your putting technique is really weak.

I know a lot of putters who struggle at 25-33 feet because their putt is so weak, they cant wait to get outside circle one so they can jump putt or do some other weird thing.

Which is always hilarious because... jump/step putts as done by the pro's... Which are almost always foot faults, are all snap/spin putts.

Why not just learn to putt better from far out like simon and paul who dont jump around crazy like but have really really solid putting.

 

[RAHfrolfer]

I know a lot of putters who struggle at 25-33 feet because their putt is so weak, they cant wait to get outside circle one so they can jump putt or do some other weird thing.

.....

Why not just learn to putt better from far out like simon and paul who dont jump around crazy like but have really really solid puputting.

I see what the op is saying. I know the putt technique they are talking about which is what gossage does at 15 feet. He does a different technique at 20+ feet. Matty o is a good example of an unconventional technique that he makes work, and who knows the op may be the next Matty o. I don't want to discourage the op without actually seeing what they are doing but accuracy at 15 feet is just repetition - not necessarily a good technique. At 15 feet I could throw the disc upside down and get good accuracy but it doesn't mean that technique will be beneficial for longer distances in the long run.
That weird gossage technique he uses up close is pretty limited and if you really like it you could keep using it for short putts but I'd work on a different technique for longer putts.l - that is what he does after all.

 

[Sheep]

I see what the op is saying. I know the putt technique they are talking about which is what gossage does at 15 feet. He does a different technique at 20+ feet. Matty o is a good example of an unconventional technique that he makes work, and who knows the op may be the next Matty o. I don't want to discourage the op without actually seeing what they are doing but accuracy at 15 feet is just repetition - not necessarily a good technique. At 15 feet I could throw the disc upside down and get good accuracy but it doesn't mean that technique will be beneficial for longer distances in the long run.
That weird gossage technique he uses up close is pretty limited and if you really like it you could keep using it for short putts but I'd work on a different technique for longer putts.l - that is what he does after all.

Theoretically you should be using the same technique for everything except for special putts.

that 2 footer. use full technique, that 5 footer, full technique. 30 footer, full technique.

Because we need our brains to realize "this is the way." and not be lazy about it.
When we are lazy, our subconscious becomes lazy too, and this is why no matter how much you practice putt outside, its how you practice that determines how you'll putt on the course.

 

[jupiterboy]

My putting technique IS really weak. I have no jump putt. At 60', I'm throwing.

Thing is, I'm weak in general. I'm just skinny and old—the reason I don't "just learn to putt better from far out".

Part of this stab putt working may relate to releasing closer to my face. At any rate, against what might intuitively seem true, it seems to be increasing my makes in the 20-30' range, which is a hyzer putt mess from a straddle or stagger where I'm lofting the disc. The downside is that I've really got to be in the right frame of mind to make the stab putt work. I've got to really commit through my shoulder. So often I wind up with a low-ceiling between my disc and the basket. I can put from my knee and use this stroke well.

This is probably me bracketing in terms of pace and getting my head around a faster, more direct stroke.

I experimented a bit in my round yesterday and took an extra 10 or 20 putts on several holes. I may need to stick with what's getting me more accurate distance and then work it back into a more relaxed pace. Take the good, leave the bad. Thing is, if I can make a strong putt and have the confidence that that stroke will make a longer comebacker a confident make, then I've leveled up. We'll see. Thanks for the input. Totally agree that I don't need an array of different strokes. The caveat being straddle, cause you've got to do that sometimes.

 

[RAHfrolfer]

There is a putting tutorial with lizotte and ulibari where uli is asking simon how he gets so much power and has such accuracy. Simon suggested practicing distance first (beyond comfortable or even makable range) this makes shorter putts seem not far at all. I followed this advice and started my putting practice working on technique for distance and then worked my way closer to work on accuracy. It's worked so far for me as a strategy. Take it for what it's worth.
Happy putting. Let us know how you make out.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

There is a putting tutorial with lizotte and ulibari where uli is asking simon how he gets so much power and has such accuracy. Simon suggested practicing distance first (beyond comfortable or even makable range) this makes shorter putts seem not far at all. I followed this advice and started my putting practice working on technique for distance and then worked my way closer to work on accuracy. It's worked so far for me as a strategy. Take it for what it's worth.
Happy putting. Let us know how you make out.

Agreed but you can also stand right next to a basket and practice power focusing on explosiveness.

I can standstill putt from 50 feet with a loftier style, hyzer, annhyzer or direct narrow s curve line and one thing that helped my power was just doing shit like this.

I'm slightly changing backswing position each time here just feeling different anreas out, including some weird ones like right side of body. But in all of them the power comes from the same motions. Some amount of arm lift an and then elbow extension + wrist snap + finger pop but what a lot of people overlook is internal rotation in the backswing and external rotation in the swing. The disc doesn't get pocketed from wrist curl alone. Trying to condense all that into a short explosive burst from the backswing to the release is great training. Most people are so weak wristed because they never rep explosive wrist motion in any putt training. But the external rotations also feels like it explosively transposes into the elbow extension and then wrist snap.

I'm not saying you should always putt with max wrist explosivity but my softer controlled wrist motion is so much snappier than what most casuals I see on the course doing.

The right side view is a really good view of the internal shoulder backswing to external rotation swing, and also that right side of body portion doesn't give you much else to work with so the shoulder rotation is exaggerated more.

Seems like good wait to strengthen and condition shoulder rotation that may have transferable benefits in the full throw as well.

 

[Countchunkula]

There is a putting tutorial with lizotte and ulibari where uli is asking simon how he gets so much power and has such accuracy. Simon suggested practicing distance first (beyond comfortable or even makable range) this makes shorter putts seem not far at all. I followed this advice and started my putting practice working on technique for distance and then worked my way closer to work on accuracy. It's worked so far for me as a strategy. Take it for what it's worth.
Happy putting. Let us know how you make out.

Basically the reverse of the Mark Ellis putting confidence program. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[jupiterboy]

Personally, I suspect I have stiffness in my wrists and that I compensate with finger pop as best I can. Steady improvements in drive form are stressing my wrist more this season, which brings a bunch of variability in flexibility. That's a bit of a problem because while I may be off my line or having early release issues, if my putt is off, too; I've got a bad round. Maybe as I adapt and improve and gain more flexibility, I can pull some of that back into the putt and keep gaining range. Recent tournaments rounds were 30-40 points better than average, and that's probably related to more reliable putting (as well as the bump I get playing a more difficult course).