I do not have enough knowledge about this to add much to the discussion but I can share my own experience since this is the thing I've worked on the most during my so called disc golf "career". Nose angle that is, mostly trying to throw nose down.
I've watched a lot of videos with tips and tricks to throw nose down and not one of them have worked well. They either flat out didn't work or they felt extremely forced and awkward (or both). The pouring coffee felt very forced and tensed me up, which led to other problems while not changing the nose angle that much. For a long time I tried to force my grip in a lot of different ways to make the disc come out nose down, which also felt awkward. I had more success with angeling the side opposite to my hand down (with my grip) than I did pouring coffee, this at least didn't feel as tense and awkward.
What worked best for me other than simply the process of trial and error was to think about the nose as a point inbetween what is commonly referred to as the nose and the point opposite of my hand. IE much like described in Sheep's initial post. I then just think about wanting to get that point of the disc down a bit and my body pretty much does the rest.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that none of the commonly taught tips and tricks worked for me and in the end it was mostly just figuring out what I really wanted to do and then just do it.
All shared knowledge is valuable. That's why we have this place, It doesn't mean you need to be a coach or expert to share your experience. Don't let my bold speaking manor scare you from sharing what works for you so we can all learn. =)
You're grumpy because you care. It's not a bad thing but it would probably make it easier for you to just have a mental category to file the click bait youtubers into.
You don't need to compete with them, but you could and it would require frequent posting AND some click bait.
I could talk a lot of shit about a lot of coaches and I do with sidewinder frequently but at the end of the day I'm not a coach and I just throw for fun or occasionally to win someone's lunch money.
I get how it could be stressful in your situation but there actually is an opportunity right now with the saturated online coach sphere. You could be the official grumpy guy who refutes so much of the click bait bullshit and make that your niche.
Have you not seen my video's? haha. I just rant about topics people say dumb things about. It's fantastic, I love it and I do it for myself. Cause its funny. Nobody seems to care and they dont get any traction, but that's alright, cause I had a good time making video's. Like my video on foot faults. I love that one. Actually put effort into making it too.
Obligatory Feldberg form concept photo.
View attachment 335365
Sorry, I'm aware how lame that was. Not about the lean though, I love Feldy's form.
Always points for Feldberg references.
The reality for me is: minimizing nose-up angle did little to fix my throws. I think people should chase that if they have other problems solved, as a better use of their time.
Always a case of having to have some level of standard before fixing other things.
But also, a reflection into coaching. Which in, when getting help, the coach needs to identify the root cause of the issue, not apply bandaids over top.
Some peoples nose angle issues are in their x-step, or their backswing. You gotta find it and address that. That's the biggest issue with to many gimmick video's too. You go "oh I have that problem." So you start trying to fix it with their method. But... that was never your issue in the first place.
It's tough. And I think that people forget that there is a baseline when they watch some of these video's. But I think its also important if you're making content to roll in and be like "hey, this assumes you already have basic mechanics down."
But.. Then on top of a bit of self reflection of people out there who play. They "think" they have good mechanics. and.. its not. So no amount of special sauce helps.
I don't think Pete is correct on the physics. If you just toss/spin your disc straight up in the air you can pull the disc nose up or down off axis with only the index finger on it rolling your wrist either direction.
If last point of contact is on the backside of the disc (pivots after 3 o'clock) rather than the front or side, then thumb pressing down would physically lift the nose, and fingers pulling up on backside would pull the nose down. I don't think it has to due with gyroscopic precession if you are still able to apply a force to it before leaving the hand and it begins spinning around its center of mass.
So, I actually have some slow motion video of this. But the problem is I don't know what I was doing to cause it. You can see the disc leave my hand nose down, and immediately stabilize to a nose up flight. I spent hours on this project filming and ended up walking away with waaaaay more questions than answers. And I have not had a chance to re-visit the project. I need to get a shorter lens for the high speed camera.
Though if we look at Feldberg when he talks about nose angle stuff. He says the pinky finger controls the nose angle. Which, honestly, how I putt nose down is with my pinky.
I'm speaking to no one in particular here, and maybe mostly the lurkers:
I know there is a lot of confusing and sometimes conflicting information out there. Often I try to resist concluding "I cannot personally currently do it, therefore it doesn't/never works." Maybe that philosophy leads to being a little too loose sometimes, but it also allows for more hits at others.
It's about trying to break down the conflicting information, figure out why it actually works vs just assuming the magic. I don't really think this turn the key thing has a whole lot to do with putting off axis torque on the disc to force a nose down angle. But I'm more curious to figure out what its actually changing in the follow through that's removing whatever opposing off axis torque on nose up throws.
There is a lot going on with the disc release, and. Well, My main feeling about it is simply the title of this. "lets just make stuff up."
Someone figured out some thing to help them essentially remove a bad mechanic from the throw, but in turn are looking at it as a "fix all" for everyone else having that issue.
And, I'm also sitting looking at it going "yeah, but you're ignoring like 40 other things that are more important before you flip discs over your hand."