Backhand 1357

[sidewinder22]

East/west looks better there, but I think you need to play around north/south more. Play around at the far end of the drill, the last couple inches of shift/dropping into the plant, and move your rear foot north/south, maybe east/west as well. You are spending too much time over a long spectrum of the drill motion while your rear foot is static for way too long.

Not sure why this didn't attach to the last post, but here it is:

 

[NoseDownKing]

East/west looks better there, but I think you need to play around north/south more. Play around at the far end of the drill, the last couple inches of shift/dropping into the plant, and move your rear foot north/south, maybe east/west as well. You are spending too much time over a long spectrum of the drill motion while your rear foot is static for way too long.

Not sure why this didn't attach to the last post, but here it is:

Ok I think I know what you mean, but not sure

https://youtu.be/YIC6zkFeRBY

This looks closer to the images you sent me.

 

[Brychanus]

When I was at roughly this stage, it was important to do the drill with the hand around the CoG-level like SW has it there. It makes it easier to find the "peak" separation against the door frame, so when you play around with the North-South component, it's also a little easier to find the sweet spot with your leading leg just before the drop. E.g., in the video right here your plant knee is still hanging behind your plant hip (too South). In the context of your persistent drive leg issue, I think it's because you are not shifting laterally enough against the frame and are too coiled over the top of the rear hip.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Definitely gonna make the fix once I get back to it later today. By not enough lateral shift do you mean, that I need to move further laterally with my hips?

https://youtu.be/6f3bkawLQuI

Got some video from behind tee of my regular form. Maybe this perspective shows my issues better?

 

[Brychanus]

Definitely gonna make the fix once I get back to it later today. By not enough lateral shift do you mean, that I need to move further laterally with my hips?

https://youtu.be/6f3bkawLQuI

Got some video from behind tee of my regular form. Maybe this perspective shows my issues better?

hmm might be easier to show than say & reframe it in terms of the diagonal shift. I think this post back when I was learning hammer toss and shift more diagonal off the rear leg is pretty close to your issue in Door Frame and the throw you just posted.

Here's that, you, and PP and Mcbeth:

Look at the red line from my rear shoulder to my rear knee. SW gets better leverage West & North than I got there. I think you get a more nimble move in your x-step than I can, but the relative leverage of your rear shoulder and knee is the same. A little off on the front side too because you're kinda hanging back and compensating in the x-step there.

So, notice that you're not really leveraged inside the rear knee as you start to shift. When you get it, this also makes it harder for you to "trap" the disc with your chest like PP and Mcbeth - in contrast, you (NDK) have to leave it hanging out behind you earlier & farther than Paige or Mcbeth because you're not stacked over that rear leg in transition and shifting "inside" that posture diagonally into the plant.

That's all part of what the door frame drills are supposed to teach. In your (and my) case, I think working a bit more diagonal stance to work on that rear shoulder-knee part might help like SW was mentioning a bit ago. It feels pretty cool too and you'll probably get a crushier can crush. Your plant leg is probably not going to like it because it much start forcing you to come in more like the brinsterochrone curve more abruptly and directly onto that leg (speculating there).

 

[sidewinder22]

I wonder about your plantar flexion/ankle extension. That is something you can't really do wearing skates. I don't think I see any in your door frame drill. You also never play around with the rear foot placement.

It doesn't look you are really using your weight against the door frame. It looks very soft and controlled, not letting go into it and getting a more sudden/heavy tug against the frame going into the front heel plant.

Also play around the height on door frame.

 

[Brychanus]

This might seem weird, but for the flat footed/plantar flexion issue, I have always tended to throw and to walk too flat-footed. I've been minding it more and getting my weight a little more in the balls of my feet just when walking around the last couple weeks. I noticed that the last couple rounds I threw my calves felt like they were getting more next-day athletic recovery and load better when I do DFD or standstill drills without thinking about it.


Also, this reminded me of when flashblast helped exaggerate the shift and bounce against the frame, which really helped me understand where some of the power should be coming from. Just relax and maybe exaggerate the bounce like him to start somewhat.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3849281&postcount=650

 

[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/3Ts-pQLEfqk

Focusing on pulling the door frame with more weight and using plantar flexion

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks a little better, the first hand height looked close, but then hand got way too low, but I like that you adjusted your rear foot distance to new hand height. Play around more with rear foot placement. My hand is typically just above the door knob/navel/CoG, (I'm 5'7" short).

 

[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/_lAUz83FhUA

Just played around with Door Frame again

 

[Brychanus]

Keeps looking closer. Looking at your hand height and rear foot.

Your hand might have come up just a little too much on the frame there. It might be just about right if you put it where the door latch receiver is on that frame.

Then keep messing around with the rear foot. You have more plantar flexion now, but I think you aren't getting your foot pressure to the instep of the rear foot as you hang off the frame:
https://youtu.be/mvGudQYfjD8?t=212

That's part of what's wrong with your real swings too and why you can't get your rear foot to "roll." It took me a while to get used to connecting the flow or roll of the rear foot - moving all the way from the outstep like Hershyzer with flowing through the instep like this door frame drill. You're getting close, see if you can find it. It actually felt "wrong" to me at first because there was a ton of leverage from my instep and into my rear hip that I'd never felt before. Not painful or effortful - just very noticeable because of the way the foot was helping my leg leverage into the hip socket.

Once you get it, there's a sweet spot where you'll be able to drop and swing right off into the plant without spinning or rotating off the rear foot. That's the "meat" of the DG BH.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Will definitely work on door frame tomorrow.
https://youtu.be/eoaFsfKJd_4

Got some video of my regular form trying to land more infront of rear foot. My head position is definitely telling most of the story. The way my head tilts towards the target during the power pocket is definitely concerning. Usually that's due to being over the top/throwing shoulders forward instead of hips.

https://youtu.be/7nKhv9kf6gs

Seppo here has his head tilting away from the target. It's not like slightly tilting away from the target, it's very noticable.

 

[Brychanus]

Will definitely work on door frame tomorrow.
https://youtu.be/eoaFsfKJd_4

Got some video of my regular form trying to land more infront of rear foot. My head position is definitely telling most of the story. The way my head tilts towards the target during the power pocket is definitely concerning. Usually that's due to being over the top/throwing shoulders forward instead of hips.

https://youtu.be/7nKhv9kf6gs

Seppo here has his head tilting away from the target. It's not like slightly tilting away from the target, it's very noticable.

That's starting to look better to me. You're getting off the rear side a bit better and the head is a little better.

I'd definitely keep working on the frame and optimizing. It's helping. In your case, another thing you can do during door frame drill is mind how your head is balancing into the rear foot when you're hanging/dropping against the frame without letting go and again how it helps in the braced tilt when you let go of the frame to drop and swing. Same thing as the Pratt drill and Double Dragon etc- I found minding the head balance in all of them after getting the rest of the motion in a decent place helps it transfer to the swing better.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Regular form outside:

https://youtube.com/shorts/oewkv4pqIxA?feature=share

Not exactly the best angle, but it's my first round in such a long time. Maybe you can see new things now, since I'm finally actually throwing the disc lol. Throws were going all over the place as you can guess from the video. I'll be going to the field a lot now to start getting into the groove of things. I wonder if my consistency issue is simply from not throwing outside in such a long time or just some flaw in my form. Most likely a combination.

DF
https://youtu.be/fapkYDzrc34

Not throwing into the net anymore, but still working on Door Frame

 

[Brychanus]

Regular form outside:

https://youtube.com/shorts/oewkv4pqIxA?feature=share

Not exactly the best angle, but it's my first round in such a long time. Maybe you can see new things now, since I'm finally actually throwing the disc lol. Throws were going all over the place as you can guess from the video. I'll be going to the field a lot now to start getting into the groove of things. I wonder if my consistency issue is simply from not throwing outside in such a long time or just some flaw in my form. Most likely a combination.

DF
https://youtu.be/fapkYDzrc34

Not throwing into the net anymore, but still working on Door Frame

Good to see you outside, I bet that felt good despite starting out in Shank City.

My guess would be a combo. I think players reach "steady states" with their form if they stop making changes and figure out how to make it work. You even see that in 1020+ rated pros on tour who have some mechanics issues they could sort out. So we're all in some kind of tension between optimizing what we've got vs. pushing for improvements in mechanics.

FWIW my scoring rounds have been going better just optimizing one drill or form piece at a time the last few weeks with more adequate rest. I address what I'm working on in the preshot routine then do my best to relax and just throw. I focus more on efficiency in every swing than anything else. I haven't been basement throwing the last few weeks since I tend to overdo it there, & having the target & lines of course makes a huge difference to your brain and body.

That DFD keeps looking better. Don't stop when it feels good - keep looking for little efficiencies and reinforce it probably daily for at least another week after that. I grab a frame for a couple minutes at least twice a week even now and it's helpful to fight off form drift for almost no time + effort. Awesome drill.

Can you show us Hershyzer from X-step position? I have a thought about your x-step there but don't want to assume your issue has been completely the same as mine.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Good to see you outside, I bet that felt good despite starting out in Shank City.

My guess would be a combo. I think players reach "steady states" with their form if they stop making changes and figure out how to make it work. You even see that in 1020+ rated pros on tour who have some mechanics issues they could sort out. So we're all in some kind of tension between optimizing what we've got vs. pushing for improvements in mechanics.

FWIW my scoring rounds have been going better just optimizing one drill or form piece at a time the last few weeks with more adequate rest. I address what I'm working on in the preshot routine then do my best to relax and just throw. I focus more on efficiency in every swing than anything else. I haven't been basement throwing the last few weeks since I tend to overdo it there, & having the target & lines of course makes a huge difference to your brain and body.

That DFD keeps looking better. Don't stop when it feels good - keep looking for little efficiencies and reinforce it probably daily for at least another week after that. I grab a frame for a couple minutes at least twice a week even now and it's helpful to fight off form drift for almost no time + effort. Awesome drill.

Can you show us Hershyzer from X-step position? I have a thought about your x-step there but don't want to assume your issue has been completely the same as mine.

Yeah I'll definitely work on drills still. Also will focus on the drill feels during the preshot routine.

https://youtu.be/PdJ8dETscy8

First time in the field in a long time, so obviously had to get some video. Also from a better angle than yesterday, so maybe your x-step thought is now clarified lol.

 

[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/csTV3RjKPX8

Still working on form. Today focused on striding straighter in an effort to possible reduce my griplock issue and gain more power. Both seemed to improve quite a bit. Something maybe looks a bit weird during and after the plant. I can't quite tell what it is though, but I can see something is off.

 

[Brychanus]

Some of that is looking better including the diagonal. I think though that you might still be a bit out of posture and tipping a little bit Northward off the drive leg into the shift.

I know it has been a long road, but mechanically I wanted to point out that your move off the drive leg is looking a lot better than your first post. Stay on the hunt!

 

[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/lf137BZH8o0

After big struggles with drives I have to get some work done on my form, before the next tournaments. I noticed I don't shift my hips targetwards enough, so here I'm focusing on shifting my hips targetwards as much as possible. Looks like my hips and shoulders open up way too early leading to now catapulting effect.

 

[sidewinder22]

Going into the power pocket you are pulling your elbow down and into your body/hip (shoulder going ER and upward) collapsing the power pocket, instead of going elbow up and out (shoulder going IR and swing forward) swinging disc into bigger/deeper power pocket with later and greater elbow extension/radial arc. Note how when you come inward into the power pocket your disc edge closest to your body goes wing up, instead of wing down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aADjcR_ZtUw&t=342s